The Historic Rama : Indian civilization at the end of Pleistocene, by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak.

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The Historic Rama

Indian civilization at the end of Pleistocene

Nilesh Nilkanth Oak

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"All explanations of astronomy observations from Ramayana are derived from a simple hypothesis of visual observations of the sky. No astrological ‘Drishthi’ and no astrological definitions of ‘exalted’ grahas! ... "

That is convenient attitude due to his hypothesis of a birth date of Rama not matching the horoscope, but Oak is wrong here. It's pretty silly to assume the first statement above, and then try to interpret anybody saying that five planets were exalted at noon when Rama was born, as "they were all above horizon ", when in reality they could not be visible unless it was an eclipse, and that's impossible since it was a waxing 9th date!

No matter how much Oak despises astrology, no matter how inconvenient it is to his thesis, the very basic, factual, fundamental contradiction in the two statements by him there is unbridgable and makes his whole effort suspect, despite having found a comet, a plausible timeline and some eclipses.

"I must make it clear that while not a final word on this subject, I do claim my work to be the best, and my theory/proposal to be the better theory/proposal, among five proposals (SRS, Vartak, Bhatnagar-Bala, Yardi and Oak) put forward to determine the timing of Ramayana."

While that may be correct, is it good enough? Not if the horoscope data, as given by Valmiki, doesn't match.

Basic thesis of Oak, that he's found a plausible timeline which fits much of astronomical observations, is already working at the first major fitting thereof - the Pole star being brilliant can only work with Vega being the Pole star, and so his timeline is the first plausible such possibility.

But he's hiding here the fact obvious to anybody looking at skies, or a sky map, or Wikipedia, that Vega isn't the only such possibility. There's at least one more star, Deneb, which is bright enough and close to the circle traced by axis of Earth in its precession over 26,000 year cycles.

Another surprise sprung here is that while he's explained Pole shift and consequences on seasons, he hadn't explained that it meant a shift of the lunar month corresponding to the solar year; the diatribe so far seemed to fit a shift of seasons along the solar year, as in spring coming earlier until its in September.

This assumption of his is based on an assumption that earth's Pole shift did not affect the seasons and Nordic seasons adhered to the dates we know, while lunar months of India shifted.

Reality could very well be, in fact is, the very opposite. Wikipedia in fact assumes, and states it, as such, and presumably that's based on conventional interpretation in West, agreed on by astronomers, physicists and generally scientists.

So unlike Oak’s presentation throughout this work, where he's glued Gregorian calendar to seasons as we know for all past millennia, Wikipedia even gives diagrams to illustrate the shift through a cycle of 26,000 years, with each quarter thereof shifting seasons a quarter forward along the year as one looks back in past.

This is consistent either astrology and calendar of west, where zodiac signs and seasons are not welded to visible constellations, while most Indian calendars and astrology ignore the precession, and is true to the constellations observable.

According to which, then, 13,000 years ago, summer was in December-January-February, winter in June-July-August, and spring similarly switched with autumn along Western calendar. But since that calendar ignores constellations and Indian ones don't, Indian months stayed true to seasons, Chaitra remained Vasanta, Ashwin the beginning of sharad, and so on.

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Author does a good job of explaining astronomical facts related to calendar, especially Indian Calendar, and also about scientific methods of theory, experiments and logic.

But he presents it badly by asserting that he's ruled out Chaitra being Vasanta, not having given reasons thereof, and thereafter by two other lapses in reasoning.

First, he hasn't explored other possibilities of timelines, which might have better fitting, and occurred every time 26,000 years cycle was completed, going backwards. This could even fit better around the million year ago timeline.

Two, he's unclear about astronomical observations versus astrological rules and interpretations thereof; He misinterpreted "exalted planets" as to mean "above the horizon", which is incorrect and in fact meaningless.

He also does the opposite, and misinterprets a poetic description of Rama meeting Bharata to mean that Sun, Moon, Venus and Jupiter were all together; he explicitly states that it therefore must be a no Moon day, Amawasya, with further interpretation that Jupiter and Venus also were in conjunction with Sun.

But Valmiki was a poet, not astrologer. His observations must be visual, of beauty seen in heavens. Therefore it had to be of greatest possible elongations of each, of Moon and of the planets, from Sun. This can only be with a full Moon and Jupiter rising on an Eastern horizon, opposite Sun just setting but visible on Western horizon, with a bright Venus visible high above in Western horizon.

This is perhaps a minor one in the sense of just one date which is less important than the whole timeline, but it's major in context of lapse in thinking, and even more in that of an attitude - he hasn't bothered to consult asttology in context of the astronomical observations, nor thought about or realised just when it's a poet's observation versus when it's an astrological one.

Perhaps there's another timeline, modulo some numbers of cycles of 26,000 years in past before one he picks (which is the first possible timeline), which fits better. Perhaps his mistaken observations are modifiable on his timeline as well.

Either way, it's a good thesis but leaves much in terms of gaps in reasoning and observations, assumptions and interpretations.

Oak mentions, and later reminds of his mentioning, as per his own timeline, that Venus and Jupiter were visible and not mentioned by Valmiki, and wondering why.

He's unable to come to terms with this discrepancy nixing his timeline, and need to go back in past modulo 26,000 years cycles, until everything fits as per diverse descriptions of Valmiki; also, perhaps need to reconsider Chaitra being Vasanta as traditionally held, rather than the proposed sharad he's held on fast to, seemingly not so much for its logic than for its being rather shocking to traditional India and other readers of the text.

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" ... While the first day of the year in Gregorian calendar is arbitrary, in the sense that it does not coincide with any specific cardinal point, the Gregorian calendar has rules so that it closely approximates the solar year and will continue to do so for next 8000 years without introducing much inaccuracy."

As a matter of fact, it's when Sun is closer to Earth, and perhaps it was in not too distant history that it was the day the two were closest.

Around turn of this millennium, as per a scientist at planetarium, when questioned about the date about when the Earth and Sun were closest and whether that was the significance of the first, it was stated that that was 3rd or 4th of January, at this time.

At some point in past, that point in time, of Earth being closest to Sun, might have been the beginning of the year, just as winter solstice might have been 25th December at some time in past until two millennia ago, and hence celebrated for centuries as Saturnalia, until it had to be given a false new name, because a new creed couldn't stop the celebrations.

Oak spends a great deal of space in initial chapters on logic, reasoning, rigorous examination of theory and evidence, and scientific methods of examination.

His subsequent treatment of the subject however jumps over logic, evidence and reasoning, and simply uses sleight of reasoning repeatedly to create an illusion of evidence having supported his contentions and assertions.

It's unclear if he's aware of the huge gaps.

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Chapter six where he claims he's ruled out Vasant as season of coronation of Rama, and fixes the timeline of Ramayana circa 12,000 BCE to 17,5000 BCE, isn't convincing.

There's no reason to not go back to 24,000 to 26,000 years in the first place, and the argument about pole star being bright, therefore Vega, ought to have preceded that about month of coronation being season of flowers, besides Vega beingnot the only option.

Even so, that only fixes it at the period he picks, modulo a number of cycles of 26,000 years, since Vega being Pole star is the fixed conclusion.

There's still no reason to not question if it wasn't a suitable number of cycles of 26,000 years, taking it closest possible to a million years ago, since that's the timeline of Himalaya and Vindhya being of comparable heights and "looking at one another", (across an ocean that vanished as Himalayan ranges rose out of the ocean?), as he refers before beginning part I.

He discards the million year BCE timeline and its unclear if that's in order to pick a unique one for himself instead, but gives the reason of glow of Yamuna having shifted East only 50,000 years ago. This shift, however, may have occurred several times in past.

But this rigorous objection or reasoning isn't applied to his own choice of season and time, except in observation that Vega is the only star that can be seen as a bright pole star.

And even if his choice of Chaitra as Sharad be correct, which isn't proved by him but merely asserted, he hasn't presented it with logic enough, but merely stated it as proved. He's made choices further that are arbitrary, too, while traditional choices - Chaitra as Vasant - fit several other points better, such as Ashwin and Sharad being the traditional month for campaigns, and more.

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"Bala Kanda of Valmiki Ramayana described the Graha-sthithi (planetary positions), at the time of Rama’s birth as follows:

"ततो यज्ञे समाप्ते तु ऋतू नाम षट समत्ययु:

"तत: च द्वादशे मासे चैत्रे नावमिके तिथौ

"नक्षत्रे अदिती दैवत्ये स्व उच्च्छ संस्थेषु पंचसु

"ग्रहेषु कर्कटे लग्ने वाक्पता इंदुना सह"

"Translation:

"After completion of Yajna and when six seasons had elapsed, then in the 12th month, i.e. during the lunar month of Chaitra, on the 9th day, on nakshatra Punarvasu (Nakshatra Devata-Aditi) and when five grahas were in exalted state, Rama was born. Jupiter and the moon were in some specific combination with nakshatra Pushya (or area of zodiac Cancer). Karka was ascendant.

"The observation makes it clear that the lunar day (Tithi) was Chaitra Shuddha 9 and nakshatra Punarvasu. Jupiter was together with the moon, and since nakshatra was Punarvasu, it is reasonable to expect the moon near Gemini/Cancer. The five grahas were described as exalted, however, neither the details of specific five grahas mentioned nor the definition of their being exalted."

Valmiki wasn't about to write a treatise on elementary astrology! Those meanings and much more can be easily found in such a book. And it is easy in this case, even if most astrologers of India didn't know thus particular horoscope as an elementary lesson in astrology. The five exalted planets are Sun, Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn; Venus could be exalted but it contradicts life of Rama, who was single a year after returning to Ayodhya, for ever.

Moon isn't exactly exalted in Cancer, but is very strong in every way, being home and with Jupiter. The elementary lesson of this horoscope however is about five exalted planets bringing not ease as a result but strife, and eventually, lone existence on earth.

"I have proposed day of 29 November 12240 BCE for the day of Rama-Janma. On this day, the sun was in Pisces, Mars was at the border of Pisces and Aquarius, Jupiter was in Sagittarius, Venus was in Capricorn and Saturn was in Sagittarius.

"The planetary positions for the day of Rama-Janma, proposed by me, do not corroborate with this Ramayana observation."

Oak does face saving by calling astrological tenets "of our times" and claims to neither accept nor reject them. This however won't do, and his proposed date is in need of correction to fit the necessary condition. It shouldn't be too difficult to feed the horoscope into the program and ask for matching dates for a million years.

In short, Oak needs to rethink his concern regarding West, or forces assaulting everything Indian of Indian origin, by whatever label.

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Next, he uses a comet observed by Laxman to search for the timeline. Again, he's fixing the game; this only says, might be. But to say there's no other possibility, one has to eliminate all possibilities up to a million years ago, going approximately by 26,000 year cycles in past with two possibilities in mind, of Vasanta in Chaitra and Sharad in chaitra. What Oak fixes so far is only the latest possible date that Ramayana could have occurred.

Now Oak springs a surprise -

"Comet Laxman was seen near nakshatra Moola as Rama and his Vanara army traveled towards Lanka. This year was 12209 BCE. The comet was in apparition during the month of September and was brightest around 9-10 September 12209 BCE. The corresponding lunar month was that of Margashirsha/Pausha and the time of summer solstice.

"Since Ramayana text stated that Rama did return to Ayodhya at the end of the 14th year6 of his ‘forest stay’ and since he had left for the forest on his birthday – Chaitra Shuddha Navami, we can calculate the timing for the month of Chaitra occurring after 9-10 September 12209 BCE. Chaitra Shuddha Navami occurred on 17 December 12209 BCE and we can mark it as the approximate (and tentative) time of Rama’s return to Ayodhya from Lanka. Thus Rama-Ravana Yuddha took place in the year 12209 BCE."

"We can define, albeit tentatively, 13th Millennium BCE as the Ramayana Millennium."

Oak is still ignoring the 26,000 years cycles with two options in each cycle, corresponding to Chaitra being either Vasanta, spring or opposite, Sharad. This gives us several possibilities still to eliminate, twice every 26,000 years cycle for a million years past.

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"‘Situation similar to the time of Rama’s birth’ could mean simply the timing of Chaitra Shuddha 9. On the other hand, if this reference also means positions of grahas, we will have to explore planetary situations separated by 17 years and evaluate their positions and compare for similarities between two instances, i.e. Rama Janma and scheduled coronation of Rama, 17 years after his birth."

Rahu position repeats every 18 years, but the transit through a sign lasts a year and half; rest of similarities could be exactly identical for inner planets, and impossible for outer ones as identical. They might, however, be similar in some aspects. A planet aspect in some regions or other planets well, for example, can recur without exact repetition of positions of either.

Oak would have done well having an astrologer, or at least a student thereof, to collaborate with him to interpret the verses related to astronomical observations and astrological interpretations thereof.

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"The astronomy observations at the time of Rama Janma are certainly confusing with the exception of the nakshatra of the day – Punarvasu. The exact text of Ramayana, at the time of Rama Janma states18,

"ततो यज्ञे समाप्ते तु ऋतू नाम षट समत्ययु:

"तत: च द्वादशे मासे चैत्रे नावमिके तिथौ

"नक्षत्रे अदिती दैवत्ये स्व उच्च्छ संस्थेषु पंचसु

"ग्रहेषु कर्कटे लग्ने वाक्पता इंदुना सह

"प्रोद्यमाने जगन्नाथम सर्व लोक नमस्कृतम

"कौसल्या अजनयत रामं सर्व लक्षण संयुतम

"विष्णो अर्धं महाभागम पुत्रं ऐक्ष्वाकु नन्दनम

"लोहिताक्षम महाबाहुं रक्त ओष्तम दुंदुभी स्वनम"

"When six seasons (one year) had passed, during the 12th month, on the 9th day of Chaitra, when the Nakshatra was presided by its Deity Aditi (Punarvasu) and when five grahas were exalted. The nakshatra was Punarvasu (Devata= Aditi) and 5 grahas were exalted. Jupiter (Vak-pati) was along with the moon (or they were in similar positions, i.e. ascendant, descendant, etc.)."

"While commentators/researchers have added specific interpretations of what exalted grahas mean, Valmiki Ramayana does not provide definitions of what it means to have a graha (or plaents) in exalted state."

Astrology isn't arbitrary or a matter of personal interpretation upto a matter of certain exact astronomical positions, and "exalted, debilitated" are exact terms in astrology for each planet. Interpretations come after this level.

"GP edition refers to the sun, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter and Venus as five grahas and their appearance in zodiacal signs of Aries, Capricorn, Libra, Cancer and Pisces, respectively, qualifies them as being exalted. Vartak and Bhatnagar refer to similar interpretation."

There's no other possibility when once a statement about five planets being exalted in the horoscope- those are the respective signs that Sun, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter and Venus are in; but Oak’s omission of the Moon therefrom isn't obvious, unless the specific planets mentioned by Valmiki omit Moon.

As far as general consensus goes, it's Moon included amongst exalted planets, not Venus, which accords with his being dingle for most of his life beginningalmostwith conception of his sons, when he sent his Queeninto exile. If Venus is exalted in this horoscope, he'd not be single by choice thereafter.

Mercury couldn't be exalted if Sun is, in any horoscope.

This chart serves to illustrate the lesson of astrology about unhappy result of specific four exalted planet Sun, Saturn, Jupiter and Mars, set in a square due to their exalted positions and opposing or otherwise badly aspecting one another.

"While Vartak and Bhatnagar claim to have grahas in exalted positions for their proposed timeline, this is not the case. Grahas are not in exalted state (as per definition) for my proposed day either. In short, notwithstanding the claims to contrary, no researcher has shown five grahas in exalted positions (per astrology rules and/or their own interpretation) for their proposals."

That's because this is taken as the last, not the first, point to consider, and dismissed when the author's favorite dates don't oblige. It ought to be done the other way - search first and foremost for those specific five planets being in those specific signs. This shouldn't be difficult.

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"Table lists positions of five astral bodies (Sun, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter and Venus) for 4 different proposed dates for Rama Janma. Second column shows desired positions of these astral bodies to qualify as being in ‘EXHALTED’ state. Epoch of 2000 CE was used for ‘Right Ascension values’ in defining areas of Zodiac and also positions of astral bodies. Time: 12:00 PM

"I conjecture that exalted state of grahas, assuming my proposal is a valid proposal, may refer to their being present in the sky along with the sun at the same time, i.e. all five grahas (excluding the sun) in the sky along with the sun. In addition, Jupiter was setting (western horizon) when the moon was rising (on eastern horizon) at ~ 3 PM on this day."

His interpretation in this is incorrect, and with exception of Venus, other four being exalted makes them form a square, with one planet at each point of horizon and other two at zenith and nadir; specifically the horoscope of Rama, one that astrologers all agree upon, has Jupiter rising in Cancer, and Mars (not Moon, since this position debilitated the Moon due to a sign not happy for the Moon) setting in Capricorn, sun at Zenith in Aries and Saturn at Nadir in Libra.

Oak’s work is seriously marred due to his attitude regarding astrology despite his using astronomical observations of Valmiki, as he terms them, to base his research upon; for these observations aren't limited to astronomy, and are essentially of astrological character in their nature.

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"Error Elimination – Experiment 9

"Exalted Grahas @ the time of Scheduled Coronation"

"All 5 grahas were in the sky along with the sun on 20/21 December 12223 BCE. Position of the moon was identical (not a surprise as same time of the lunar day and lunar month). Position of Jupiter was not on the western horizon when the moon was rising."

As said before, exalted position of a planet has nothing to do with being above horizon in astrology, and the terms he quotes aren't lay terms but those specific of astrology - else why assume sun in Aries, or even more, Jupiter in Cancer?

Oak is quite sloppy and arrogant here in using what suits him, and throwing rest under the rug or worse. He doesn't realise, moreover, that the planetary positions being all above horizon negates his thesis about the dates he has picked.

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"Astronomy content of above Ramayana references is limited to verses 10 & 11 and is extrmely generic. It states that Mars, Jupiter, Mercury and other grahas assumed a menacing aspect and that was also the case with star Trishanku (Acrux). Other than star Trishanku, rest of the obsevations (Mars, Jupiter, Mercury and nakshatra Vishakha) are too generic. Trishanku could be seen at night during this time.

"All we can say is that this observation certainly does not contradict our timeline."

Or he might question if this "menacing aspect" has an interpretation. Vishakha is mentioned specifically, and it's described as menacing might have an astronomical reality.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 11

"Return of Rama to Ayodhya on Pushya 6-8

"Most of the Ramayana researchers simply assumed that Rama returned to Ayodhya on Chaitra Shuddha 9, after 14 years away from the kingdom. ... "

Oak seems completely oblivious of the common tradition of North India regarding this, of the specific return of Rama (with Sita, Laxman and Hanuman) to Ayodhya to have been on Deepavali, having killed Ravana on Vijaya Dashamie and won the war that day.

The original celebration of these two might be correctly interpreted in Bengal where they celebrate Durga Puja and Kalie Pouja, respectively, on Vijaya Dashamie and Deepavalie.

But throughout North India and especially in Hindi belt, Vijaya Dashamie is Ravana Dahana, after nine days of Navaratri, which elsewhere in India are Mother Goddess worship festival.

So why anyone would assume, or conclude that Rama returned in Chaitra, is a puzzle.

"Credit goes to Dr. P V Vartak, for recognizing implications of Ramayana references related to Rama’s arrival at the ashram of sage Bharadwaj on fifth (panchami) lunar day of the month and Rama’s scheduled meeting with Bharata the next day on nakshatra Pushya.

"Rama killed Ravana in the battle and installed Vibhishan on the throne of Lanka. Vibhishan offered Pushpak Vimana for Rama’s speedy return to Ayodhya. Rama arrived at the ashram of sage Bharadwaj on the 5th lunar day 6, 7. Sage Bharadwaj asked Rama to meet Bharata the next day, the day being lunar day of Pushya8.

"Two possibilities exist for 6th lunar day of the month coinciding with nakshatra Pushya: either 6th day of the Krishna Paksha of Ashwin/Kartika or 6th day of the Shuddha Paksha of Vaishakha/Jyeshtha. Since Margashirsha was already over when Rama left for Lanka, it is clear that Rama arrived in Ayodhya on Vaishakha Shudda 6, on Pushya nakshatra. The day was 13 January 12208 BCE. The timing of his arrival is also consistent with his pledge not to return to Ayodhya until 14 years were completed. In addition, this day occurred only six days after Amawasya day, when Ravana was killed by Rama on the battlefield."

If these dates are facts quoted from Valmiki, what explains the celebrations in North India in Hindi belt of Ramayana through Ashwin Navaratri and Ravana Dahana on Vijaya Dashamie?

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Oak quotes Valmiki about birth of Rama -

"ततो यज्ञे समाप्ते तु ऋतू नाम षट समत्ययु:

"तत: च द्वादशे मासे चैत्रे नावमिके तिथौ

"नक्षत्रे अदिती दैवत्ये स्व उच्च्छ संस्थेषु पंचसु

"ग्रहेषु कर्कटे लग्ने वाक्पता इंदुना सह

"प्रोद्यमाने जगन्नाथम सर्व लोक नमस्कृतम

"कौसल्या अजनयत रामं सर्व लक्षण संयुतम"

"This also means the timing of the end of Putra-kameshthi yajna was same as that of the lunar month of Chaitra and thus, that of Sharad season. ... "

No, he's assuming his preference of or choice for Sharad is proven beyond doubt, which isn't true - he'd merely asserted to that effect in the first place; and here, nothing but that choice of his can allow anyone to conclude to Chaitra being Sharad at that time, but he's doing a sleight in repeating his assertion without proof.

Then, yet again he does it, and presumes or pretends conveniently that a poet's simile is literal -

"हर्षरश्मिभीरुदयोतम तस्यान्त: पुरमाबभौ

"शारदस्याभिरामस्य चन्द्रस्येव नभोsशुभि:"

"This Ramayana observation corroborates our assertion of lunar month of Chaitra coinciding with the Sharad Season."

No, that's a lie.

Valmiki is comparing the beauty of the newborn with that of the rising Golden harvest full Moon, which isn't rising that moment - it's at noon that Rama is born, so there's no moon visible at the moment, certainly. And also, since it's a Navamie, not full moon day, Valmiki isn't being literal, clearly.

"ऊनषोडशवर्षो मे रामो राजीवलोचन:

"न युद्धयोग्यतामस्य पश्यामि सह राक्षसै:"

"Sage Vishwamitra had almost completed his yajna23 however Rakshasas were not allowing it to be completed24 and sage Vishwamitra wanted Rama’s assistance for 10 nights25.

"अभिप्रेतमसंसक्तमात्मजं दातुमर्हसि

"दशरात्रं हि यज्ञस्य रामं राजीवलोचनं"

"The Ramayana text is not explicit as to when exactly sage Vishwamitra arrived at the court of king Dasharatha. What we do know is that king Dasharatha was discussing the subject of Rama’s marriage with his ministers at that time. In addition, king Dasharatha refers to Rama, in his conversation with sage Vishwamitra, as merely 16 years old."

Oak is discarding every hint not in accordance with his fixation on Sharad and Chaitra together.

The mentioned ten days might just be a hint to a Navaratri, however, and traditionally it's Ashwin Navaratri that's related to Divine Victory. Which matches Sharad if Oak drops his insistence on chaitra being sharad, and looks at other possibilities - a multiple of 26,000 thousand years plus13,000 years prior to his date.

He assumes Rama was sixteen only within a day or so of arrival of the sage; but "barely sixteen" describes someone closer to youth, not yet seventeen, not quite adult, and does not necessarily mean "a day over sixteen years".

"I conjectured that the timing of Vishwamitra’s arrival in Ayodhya coincided with Rama completing 16 years. Rama completed 16 years, per lunar nakshatra/tithi/month, on 3 December 12224 BCE. I have assumed that sage Vishwamitra arrived at the court of king Dasharatha on 3 or 4 December 12224 BCE."

The conjecture is without base, and the rest is, again, based on his tower of unproven assertions.

Next, he mixes Valmiki Ramayana's description of the journey and events, with his own interpretation and his choice of assumptions as to dates.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 13

"Late Moonrise41

"Late moonrise during the travel of Vishwamitra and Rama/Laxman corroborates well with my proposed timeline."

Valmiki isn't specific about time thereof, but an assumption of waxing Navamie as day of leaving necessarily gives a moonrise at the time he gives 11 days later; that, however, does not corroborate with rest of the timelines he fixates on.

An assumption of a Chaitra Vasanta would take us around instead to an Ashwin campaign which accords well with Sharad season as well as with Vijaya Dashamie occurring during this campaign.

Oak proceeds with count of the days.

"The day of Rama-Sita wedding appears to be that of Vaishakha Shuddha 11 or 12. ... "

Which, if we revert to Chaitra being Vasanta, and their having gone in Ashwin, is instead a wedding at muhurta of Tulasi Vivaha, instead! That's far more fitting a proposition.

Oak drives on again to establish his timings chosen and asserted.

"King Janaka had planned either yajna of 12 days or 12 days of yajna were remaining when sage Vishwamitra, along with Rama and Laxman, arrived in Mithila. Again, this yajna ended during the month of Chaitra and thus during the Sharad season."

Here, the conclusion is based on his own assumption and choices, and hence not valid. But then he states -

" ... Since the yajna (Ishti) was concluded during the Sharad season20 and the fact the boys were born one year after18, the season of their birth is also that of Sharad (month being Chaitra) and this fact corroborates well with 13th Millennium BCE. "

This, unless he quoted Valmiki to support his contention about "yajna (Ishti) was concluded during the Sharad season", is a sleight of hand, with no evidence to support other than his own arbitrary choice. A choice instead of Chaitra being Vasanta and the campaign being in Ashwin instead would lead to a wedding on Tulasi Vivaha muhurta, and exile a year later.

"Chaitra Pornima (full moon of Chaitra) and Sharad Sampat (fall equinox) coincided in 13th Millennium BCE, e.g. 12963 BCE, 12955 BCE, 12944 BCE, 12936 BCE, 12925 BCE, 12914 BCE,------, 12390 BCE, 12371 BCE, 12363 BCE, 12344 BCE, -----, 12238 BCE, 12230 BCE, 12219 BCE, 12208 BCE."

And the opposite choice of Vasanta would provide suitable timelines beginning 13,000 years prior, and other modulo 26,000 years cycles, until several upto a million years ago.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 17

"Sharad Season

"Rama is described, after receiving mystic spells of Bala and Atibala, as shone like the glorious sun, casting innumerable rays, of the Sharad season (pre-autumn) 66."

However, fixing Chaitra as Sharad isn't necessarily implied by this. On the contrary, Chaitra as Vasant gives a far better, poetic interpretation. In that case, Chaitra is a season of new leaves, infancy, new life, while Sharad is of golden moon, golden sunshine and golden harvest, ripening but not old, first flush of youth. So birth in spring in Chaitra, and campaign, wedding and exile in Ashwin fit better with traditional understanding of the significance.

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"Rama was 17 years old at the time of his scheduled coronation64. King Dasharatha scheduled coronation of Rama on nakshatra Pushya17, 67-73 and during the lunar month of Chaitra2. Thus, Rama and Sita had spent approximately one lunar year (12 months), together, by the time of his scheduled coronation. The day of scheduled coronation was 20/21 December 12223 BCE."

Here the use of "thus" falsifies much. Valmiki stating that Sita had a year in Ayodhya after her wedding wasn't based on the author's assumption of Chaitra being Sharad, and the rest isn't corroborating his choice or wreaked with the choice of Vasanta being Chaitra.

................................................................................................

"The two princes (Rama & Laxman) then embraced Sumantra and Guha, in the forest, similar to the sun and the moon conjoining with Venus and Jupiter in the heaven.

"11 January 12222 BCE and 10 April 12222 BCE are two instances when conjunction of sun/moon (Amawasya) along with conjunction of Venus/Jupiter occurred. Conjunction of Venus/Jupiter occurred twice within a span of 3 months due to the fact that Venus went retrograde during this time."

But if the four were together, none were visible; interpreting it not as Sun with Moon and therefore all four together, since Venus is never far from sun, and thereby neither Moon nor Jupiter being bright, which loses the point completely, it should instead be interpreted differently - as Venus with Sun and Jupiter with Moon, whereby all four can be seen as bright; moreover, further Jupiter and Moon are in sky from sun the better for their brightness, while Venus is brilliant within the possible greatest distance it can get from Sun.

The simile above by poet is based on observations of the skies, not astrology, and thus all four must be visible and bright enough to impress. A crescent Moon may do so, but a Jupiter close to Sun is dim.

Oak really ought to consult someone who'd know. And of that description there are plenty in his own community.

"ददर्श च वने तस्मिन्महत: संचयान्क्रुतां

"मृगाणां महिषाणां च करीषै: शीतकारणात

"Now, heaps of dried dung of deer and buffaloes could be stored for the purposes of cooking in general. However, Ramayana text specifically refers to its purpose, i.e. to protect against cold."

Correct. But not the next part.

"This is additional corroboration for the specific timing of Bharata-Rama meeting but also for the 13th Millennium BCE (and lunar month of Chaitra as month of Sharad season during Ramayana times) as Ramayana Millennium."

No, that's again sleight. It's corroboration only for season, not for "13th Millennium BCE (and lunar month of Chaitra as month of Sharad season during Ramayana times)"; a shift of 13,000 years plus a multiple of 26,000 years can match everything else, possibly, except Oak’s insisted identification with Chaitra being Sharad.

"Ramayana text is not explicit on when Bharata returned to Ayodhya from Chitrakuta. It appears that Bharata left Chitrakuta and arrived at Ayodhya by the end of spring, i.e. during Grishma season91.

"पुष्पनद्धां वसन्तान्ते मत्तभ्रमरशालिनीं

"द्रुतदावाग्निविप्लुष्टां क्लान्तां वनलतां इव"

"Ayodhya appeared like a flowering creeper laden with blossom in the spring-tide, frequented by a swarm of intoxicated bees, that is suddenly consumed by a forest fire and withering.

"This timing appears to be corroborated by comparison of otherwise joyful times that accompanied this season of Grishma (end of spring) 92."

Oak is again imposing exactitude of time on a poetic description. Ayodhya was appearing like that not due to the season's heat, when it would be only natural, but due to the devastation of hearts brought on by the exile of Rama and Sita, devastation to hearts of not only family but the very kingdom.

As for actual physical appearance of Ayodhya in heat of summer, there's no reason to suppose that Ayodhya then - or any well cared for place in India since - appears physically so in summer; what one's likely to encounter instead are deep shading trees with large cool under the trees, and bird's songs, especially koel, apart from exorbitant fragrance of mangoes, and much more.

................................................................................................

"Rama, Laxman and Sita spent more than 10 years343 at Dandakaranya. At the end of this 10 year period, they moved to Panchavati, near modern day Nashik, Maharashtra, India."

Oak is not quoting Valmiki here, nor accepting that it's his own convenience to assume this.

Why assume that the three moved more than once? Maharashtra was, as far as we know, possibly in or even all of, Dandakaranya.

Panchavati would be a safe spot found by them therein, to build a cottage surrounded by five Wata trees shading the cottage and grounds with a joint canopy, as can be seen in more than one such place even now in India where old Wata trees have been left undisturbed and grown families around of trees connected to the central one via roots in air.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 26

"Grahas attacking Sun & Moon98

"Valmiki compares Khara, Dushana and their companions attacking Rama and Laxman with that of grahas attacking the sun and the moon98.

"सा भीमवेगा समराभिकामा सुदारुणा राक्षसवीर सेना

"तौ राजपुत्रौ सहसाभ्युपेता मालाग्रहाणामीव चन्द्रसूर्यो"

Again, Oak will misinterpret this poetic description as literal.

"Position of the sun and the moon together refers to Amawasya and possible time of solar eclipse. Voyager simulation shows all five visible grahas in the sky – Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn at the time of solar eclipse."

That certainly speaks of a time seemingly of drastic events possibility for the hour, seen not from astrologer's but a casual observer's or poet's point of view. But was Valmiki aware of it as such, and was he consciously referring to it? Since this description is one of planets visible in sky, it's very likely he did observe this, or even that everyone did.

"And while I am not making a case for Valmiki being aware of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, I want to simply bring it to the attention of readers that these three grahas, not visible to the naked eye, were also in the sky at the time of solar eclipse."

That makes it all the more so an hour when it looks to an average eye, even a poet, (but not an astrologer), as if terrible events could transpire. Rama being victorious over the crowd mirrors the Sun and Moon seemingly coming clear out of the shadows to the said average observer or poet.

"स तेषां यातुधानानां मध्ये रतो गत: खर:

"बभूव मध्ये ताराणां लोहिताङ्ग इवोदित:"

This, one must admit, fixes the event better; possibly there are many other such astronomically fitting dates amongst possible timelines going back 26,000 years cycles until a million years ago too, but this could be the latest possible.

Oak recapitulates Ramayana dates as per his research in a conclusion.

"Soon, Rama left Chitrakuta, along with Sita and Laxman, and visited many sages and their residences. They roamed through the Dandakaranya for many years and then arrived at the ashram of sage Agastya. Sage Agastya instructed Rama about divine missiles and suggested that Rama go and stay at Panchavati, on the bank of river Godavari. Rama, Sita and Laxman left for Panchavati, met Jatayu on the way, and soon settled in Panchavati."

It's unclear if here Oak is mixing his interpretation with original. This roaming in Dandakaranya isn't a familiar part. Is it in Valmiki Ramayana that Panchavati was separate, not merely a clear spot due to the growing family of Wata trees suitable and convenient for a cottage or two, for the homestead needed for the couple and his brother?

"They lived happily in Panchavati for a long time, and another season of Hemant (autumn) arrived. Shurpanakha, sister of Ravana, visited Rama, at Panchavati, around this time. Shurpanakha felt infatuation towards Rama and expressed her wish to marry him and went on to attack Sita. Laxman loped the nose and ears of Shurpanakha and she ran away with pain and anger to her brother Khara. Khara sent his 14 men to punish Rama and Rama killed them all. Shurpanakha approached Khara for the second time. Khara and Dushana marched towards Panchavati with a huge army. This day was 28 March 12210 BCE. The time was that of Shishir (winter) season. Long fight ensued and Rama defeated Khara and his army. Rama also killed Dushana, Trishira and Khara."

Shourpanakha's behaviour suits Vasanta far better, while the latter descriptions of war waged by Khara on Rama and Laxman, and effects thereof on the forest life, suits or seems in harmony with searing heat of summer and occasionally occurring forest fires due to heat.

................................................................................................

"Error Elimination – Experiment 29

"Ravana & Marich in Panchavati

"Time of Vasanta/Grishma101

One must say, this somehow isn't fitting to the coming event; a date post Ashadha Ekadashie seems better suited, especially one after full Moon, or even better, Amawasya.

"सशैलं सागरानूपं वीर्यवानवलोकयं

"नानापुष्पफलैर्वृक्षैरनुकीर्ण सहस्रश:

"कदल्याढकिसम्बाधं नालिकेरोपशोभितं

"सालैस्तालैस्तमालैश्च तरुभिश्च सुपुष्पितै:"

"Ravana left Lanka and traveled through mountains and forests filled with trees bearing varieties of flowers and fruits. He traveled along coastline that looked most charming with its plantain groves and was embellished with coconut, sal, Palymrya, Tamala and other trees in full blossom101."

The descriptions suit nature, especially in South India but really through most of India, much better after a rain or more than one has cooled the hot earth and air, and given life to the plant, and trees dried by heat.

Shravana and Bhadrapada are heavy rains, which ultimately benefit India's earth, but mid to late Ashadha fits the descriptions above better than Grieshma.

Vasanta is too benefic a season with its connotations of new life, blossoming et al; but Ashadha Ekadashie is called Devashayanie, one when "Gods go to sleep", so forces of opposite have field to themselves until Gods wake up on Kartika Ekadashie.

"Marich assumed a remarkable and attractive form of a deer, with the help of his conjuring skills, and began moving about near Rama’s residence in Panchavati. Sita noticed this golden deer and asked Rama to capture it. This was the season of Vasanta (spring). Laxman did judge this golden deer to be a trick and Rama did not disagree with Laxman."

Again, this act and desires of Sita are far more suitable to Sharad with cooling after rains and a season when an expectation of onset of winter has people attracted, longing for warmth.

If it were Vasanta instead, the expected onset of heat would make one relatively indifferent to animal skin as clothing unnecessary until half a year later, not quite necessary just then, and more a bother to store and care than an immediately coming need.

She'd still like the beauty, but the urgency of sending her love in quest despite his unwillingness would be missing, and instead she'd be more inclined to be pliable to his will.

................................................................................................

"Error Elimination – Experiment 37

"Resembled Sun-Moon in the sky110

"तौ भीमबलविक्रान्तौ सुपर्णसमवेगिनौ

"प्रवृद्धौ घोरवपुषौ चन्द्रसूर्याविवाम्बरे"

"The two brothers – who were endowed with terrible might and prowess, were intent on finding out vulnerable points of each other – resembled like the moon and the sun in the sky.

"As described earlier, this day was the day of Amawasya and thus the moon and the sun were together. In addition, the moon and the sun might have been visible together as it was the day of solar eclipse. This timing of Amawasya appears to be further corroborated by one additional observation."

Oak is exasperating in his glitches at ordinary observations and such. Eclipses aren't quite as rare, as he himself points out. He ought to know better.

Moon isn't visible on any Amawasya, and this is true of the eclipse too. Other planets and stars close to Sun do become visible during even a not complete eclipse, if it's more than a certain amount of sun in shadow. But not the Moon.

The only time that Sun and Moon look even vaguely similar, comparable, even equal, is at sunset if a full Moon rises opposite on Eastern horizon, not before Sun sets but at the moment close to its setting, with both orbs comple just over horizons opposite one another.

It's one thing fixing on Amawasya for some other reason, but the verses here aren't a corroboration.

................................................................................................

"Error Elimination – Experiment 38

"Moonless sky = Amavasya111

"तस्मिन्निपतिते भूमौ हर्यृषाणां गणेश्चरे

"नष्टचन्द्रमिव व्योम न व्यराजत भूतलं"

"Vali fell to the ground, and the earth appeared as dark as the sky with the moon disappeared from it (Amawasya). "

That's less than honest. The phrase "sky with the moon disappeared from it" fits a time after a bright moon has set over western horizon, not a night where it never was up, when stars are consequently brilliant. Also, disappeared is not a fitting translation for the severe "नष्टचन्द्र", " destroyed Moon".

"Error Elimination – Experiment 39

"Moon devoured by Rahu- Eclipse in general112

Moon isn't seized by Rahu, and solar eclipse is Sun occulted by Rahu; a Lunar eclipse is when Moon is occulted, by Ketu, opposite of Rahu.

"इत्येवमुक्त: सुग्रीवो वालिना भ्रातृसौहृदात

"हर्ष त्यक्त्वा पुनर्दीनो ग्रहग्रस्त इवोडुराट"

"Listening to the advice of Vali, Sugriva felt wretched and looked like the moon seized by Rahu. ... "

Lunar eclipse, further, has effect of Moon being visible throughout, but a dull red, not brilliant golden or silver as normally it does.

If Oak is shying from Hindu or Indian terminology, best avoid it completely rather than mess it with ignorance or lies.

" ... The reference is definitely to an eclipse. ... "

A poetic description is not identical with a accurate astronomical observation, and here it's the former. A Lunar eclipse occurs necessarily after sundown, and a solar eclipse being on Amawasya has Moon not visible for those twenty-four hours roughly, anyway.

" ... As I have shown, the day was that of Amawasya ... "

Amawasya is by calculation according to his whim, not shown via an irrefutable, incontrovertible piece of evidence, and certainly not indicated by Valmiki.

" ... and also that there was a solar eclipse. Reader should not forget that the sun and the moon are together at the node (intersection of the paths of the sun and the moon) at the time of solar eclipse."

Yes, and so much of the forced sticking of his interpretation by author on verses is either false or redundant, apart from the Poet not having said it was Amawasya.

Oak is browbeating here, but everyone knows - and Oak seems to forget - that an eclipse is when Sun is in shadow for at most four hours, but Moon is not visible for six times that duration.

................................................................................................

"यत्र वन्ध्यफला वृक्षा विपुष्पा: पर्णवर्जिता:

"निस्तोया: सरितो यत्र मूलं यत्र सुदुर्लभं

"न सन्ति महिषा यत्र न मृगा न च हस्तिन:

"शार्दुला: पक्षिणो वापि ये चान्ये वनगोचरा:

"स्निग्धपत्रा: स्थले यत्र पद्मिन्य: फुल्लपङ्कजा:

"प्रेक्षणीया: सुगन्धाश्च भ्रमरैश्चापि वर्जिता:"

"They found the trees had no flowers, fruits or even leaves. The streams were devoid of water and they had hard times finding roots. The area was devoid of buffaloes, deer, elephants, tigers, birds and other animals. The area was also devoid of trees, annual plants, climbers or creepers, lotus plants or lotuses."

Oak mistranslates शार्दुला: as tigers, whereas it actually means lions.

The descriptions above fit severe summer in most of India, even now, rather than any part of any season after rains and before summer. Shishir only has leaves regeneration in a short span, not shortage of water and of birds.

"Significant time elapsed and exhausted Vanara party was encouraged by Angada and Gandhamadan to resume their search."

Gandhamadana or Gandhamadan was, perhaps is, a mountain - in the sense Himalaya is considered a mountain - in India. It's not a person or even one of the tribe named Vanara, whether ape or otherwise, either from the Sugriva- Vali-Angada- etc associates of rama from Kishkindha, or elsewhere.

"By luck, the search party ran into Sampati, brother of Jatayu, and he informed them that Ravana had taken Sita to Lanka. With renewed vigor, Vanara party headed towards Lanka and soon reached the northern seashore. Crossing the ocean was indeed a challenge and individual Vanara described their flying strengths. Finally, Jambavan encouraged Hanuman to take up the task. Hanuman agreed and climbed up to the top of mount Mahendra and readied himself to leap into the sea.

"Hanuman swam across the ocean, entered Lanka and began searching for Sita through various palaces and gardens of Lanka. ... "

One can only assume that Hanuman was unaware of his prowess and Valmiki has mentioned this somewhere between this point but before Hanuman brought herbs from Himalayan regions to Lanka during the battle, in a matter of hours, saving the life of Laxman.

Or else Oak is switching from original descriptions of Valmiki to suit convenience of avoiding embarrassing questions from non Indian, non Hindu readers, regarding his beliefs and credulity.

But no traditional Ramayana depicts Hanuman as having swimmed across the short strip of ocean, where later his colleagues built a bridge across from India to Lanka, which is now submerged due to rising levels of ocean around the globe, but still very much there, visible to satellite and to humans too, and certified by scientists of not Indian origin, as man-made structure.

And as to Hanuman and his awareness, since Valmiki states definitely that he offered during this visit to carry Sita back from where she was in Ashoka-vana to Rama in India, he wasn't offering to swim with her on his back, a dangerous idea; it must have been a leap across the ocean that he had in mind, and this awareness must have been accompanied by confidence due to having just performed the feat.

"Hanuman comforted Sita and promised to take her message to Rama. ... "

Here he's avoiding mention of Hanuman offering to carry her back, her refusing with gratitude, and giving him a jewel as sign from her to give Rama, which he's mentioned elsewhere. Here's more evidence that Oak is embarrassed with thought of a non Hindu, non Indian and other, anti-Hindu, readership confronting him or ridiculing him. So he modifies his tone to suit such a readership, instead.

"The ocean remained highly turbulent. Rama sat down for three nights and days meditating on ways to cross the ocean. He felt frustrated and began throwing arrows at the ocean but was calmed down by Laxman. ... "

He's making Rama sound and look like a sulking child, and Laxman an elder pacifying a teen. This is completely at not only odds but at loggerheads with the image of Rama set by Valmiki and set in minds and hearts of India for several millennia, if not for several hundreds of millennia.

This image is of a calm, firm Hero and God, quite well aware of his prowess, and Rama is a basically not easily angered even in battle, unlikely to lose his cool even after all the travail of the war, as evidenced by his telling Laxman to bow to a dying Ravana because despite everything he was a man of great learning acquired by his own efforts.

Here, what's known and understood is Rama in wrath of a God and a Hero ready to assault Ocean, where Ocean is not just material body of water but is personified as a God, seen by Rama as someone standing in his way to retrieval of Sita, his abducted young wife helpless in captivity of a powerful abductor, in need of rescue.

Laxman stops him, with the same understanding, preferring not engaging Ocean further into being more obstructive, whether due to being on side of Ravana or otherwise.

................................................................................................

In the following part, there's increasing mismatch, not only in placement of his "Error Elimination" subtitles below or in midst of the matter, but in separation of verses from translations via subtitles supposed to tackle next bit.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 42

"A considerable time elaspsed115

"कालश्च नो महान्यात:सुग्रीवश्चोग्रशासन:

"तस्माद्भवन्त: सहिता विचिन्वन्तु समन्तत:"

"Hanuman, along with Tara and Angada, began to explore caves and dense forests in the southwestern (Kerala?) ranges of the mountain. They reached the south-western summit of that mountain and while they searched, the time appointed by Sugriva clearly slipped away.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 43

"A considerable time elapsed116

"आसेदु: तस्य शैलस्य कोटीं दक्षिण पश्चिमां

"तेषां तत्र एव वसतां स कालो व्यत्यवर्तत"

"The party reached a valley – Rikshabila – difficult to access. However, overcome by hunger, thirst and exhaustion, and thus to seek water, the party decided to enter the valley which was filled with climbers and creepers. The birds – herons, swans, cranes, chakrawaka, their limbs laden with pollen, emerged from the valley. This then appears to be the time of early spring."

That description is clearly not in the verse above, so one wonders if he made it up, until finding it in the next verse - separated by a subtle!

"Error Elimination – Experiment 43

"Time of Early Spring117"

He's making up that interpretation of it being spring, yo suit his own constructs.

"गिरिजालावृतान्देषान्मार्गित्वा दक्षिणां दिशं

"क्षुत्पिपासा परीताश्च श्रान्ताश्च सलिलार्थिन:

"अवकीर्णं लतावृक्षैर्ददृशुस्ते महाबिलं

"तत: क्रौच्चाश्च हंसाश्च सारसाश्चापि निष्क्रमं

"जलार्द्राश्चक्रवाकाश्च रक्ताङ्गा: पद्मरेणुभि:

"अस्माच्चापि बिलाद्धंसा: क्रौच्चाश्च सह सारसै:

"जलार्द्राश्चक्रवाकाश्च निष्पतन्ति स्म सर्वश:

"नूनं सलिलवानत्र कूपो वा यदि वा हृद:

"तथा चेमे बिलद्वारे स्निग्धास्तिष्ठन्ति पादपा:"

"The search party entered the valley and after walking for some distance arrived at a beautiful spot that was filled with atmosphere of the spring season: Sal, Palmyra, Tamala, Punnaga, Vanjula, Dhava Champaka, Naga and Karnikara trees in blossom with wonderful golden clusters of flowers and tender crimson leaves."

Again the mismatch - that translation above belongs to the verses below.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 44

"Season of Spring118

That spring is Oak’s own imposition on Valmiki’s verses.

"ततस्तं देशमागम्य सौम्यं वितिमिरं वनं

ददृशु: कांचनान्वृक्षान्दीप्तवैश्वानरप्रभां

सालांस्तालांश्च पुंनागान्ककुभान्वनजुलान्धवां

चंपकान्नागवृक्षांश्च कर्णिकारांश्च पुष्पितां

तरुणादित्यसङ्काशान्वैदूर्यमयवेदिकां

नीलवैदूर्यवर्णाश्च पद्मिनी: पतगावृता:

महद्भि: कान्चनैर्वृक्षैर्वृतं बालार्क संनिभै:

जातरूपमयैर्मत्स्यैर्महद्भिश्च सकच्छपै:"

Nowhere has Valmiki said it was spring, and the whole description of lack of water etc fits summer in India, not winter.

................................................................................................

Now Oak springs his surprise as is his habit, having made unsupported assertions - there's a verse or two where Valmiki speaks of spring, Vasanta, and one from search party speaks of month being Ashwin.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 49

Time of Spring & Expiration of time122

"ते वसन्तमनुप्राप्तं प्रतिवेदय परस्परं

"नष्टसन्देशकालार्था निपेतुर्धरणीतले"

"Angada uttered words that are very critical in determining the timing of Ramayana. This observation also provides exciting corroborative evidence for my timeline. He begins with reiterating the fact that his search party spent one month while simply searching for Sita, in the valley of Swayamprabha.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 50

"Full month elapsed within the Valley itself123

"शासनात्कपिराजस्य वयं सर्वे विनिर्गता:

"मास: पूर्णो बिलस्थानां हरय: किं न बुध्यते"

"And then states (possibly from observations of phases and positions of the moon) to the Vanara party that, based on his calculations – from the time of their departure from Kishkindha, the current time was that of lunar month of Ashwin and that month had also elapsed!

"Error Elimination – Experiment 51

Season of Vasanta coinciding with Lunar Month of Ashwin124

"वयम अश्वायुजे मासि काल संख्या व्यवस्थिता:

"प्रस्थिता: सो~पि चातीत: किमत: कार्यमुत्तरम"

"Vayam –us, we; ashwayuje masi –Lunar month of Ashwin, kalasamkhya vyavasthitha – based on calculations of time, prasthitta – departed, departure, sopichatit – that, kimat – what, karaymuttarmam – next to do

"By proper calculations from the time of our departure, now is the lunar month of Ashwin and even that month seems to have passed. What should we do now?"

"I want readers to analyze outcome of Error Elimination Experiment # 51 with the Ramayana text analogy of ‘falling down of Vali’ with that of ‘falling down of the flag of Indra’ that was raised, in honor of Indra, during the lunar month of Ashwin on a full moon day, but thrown onto the ground along with its flagstaff after the festival125.

"These references (121-125) assert that in Ramayana times, the flag of Indra was raised and then thrown onto the ground during the lunar month of Ashwin and also that lunar month of Ashwin coincided with that of spring season.

"If we run a simulation where full moon of Ashwin coincides with the spring Equinox (i.e. the middle of spring season), we can estimate this time to be around 14200 BCE. We can also simulate the beginning (and the end) of spring season coinciding with the full moon of Ashwin. These simulations provide us with the time interval from 16500 BCE through 11800 BCE. "

Small correction - equinox refers, not to mid season, but to day and night being of equal length of time.

In fact autumn equinox is almost nowhere middle of autumn, nor is vernal equinox middle of spring, in Nordic latitudes where those four are the seasons.

Serious autumn gets under way in most Nordic latitudes only after equinox and is on through most of October, while it's only in Germany that 20th March is formally recognised as last day of winter, but blossoming of flowers - the critical part of it being spring - happens mostly in April. Ditto England, which is more North.

As for New England, it can and often does snow on commencement in May when crocuses are out - and June is really spring, not March.

"Sampati, elder brother of Jatayu, arrived at the scene. Vanara party came to know of Sita being stationed at Lanka through Sampati."

But didn't Rama and Laxman already know of her abduction by Ravana, having met Jatayu and heard from him, before his death?

................................................................................................

"वाच्यावाच्यं प्रकुपितो न विजानाति कर्हिचित

"नाकार्यमस्ति क्रुद्धस्य नावाच्यं विद्यते क्वचित"

"One who is enraged can not discern between what is worth uttering and what not to be uttered. For an enraged person, there is neither an improper act nor ever an improper word to be spoken. (Valmiki Ramayana – Sundar 55:5)"

Having said, at end of last chapter -

"Soon they arrived at the seashore. Vanara party discussed individual strengths of party members in crossing the ocean, and finally Jambavan encouraged Hanuman to take up the task. Hanuman climbed up the mountain Mahendra, and prepared to take a leap across the sea."

Now Oak seems embarrassed, and backtracks in translation of Valmiki Ramayana.

"Hanuman jumped into the sea and began swimming towards Lanka. He eventually landed on the shore of Lanka. Numerous Ramayana references corroborate this time to be that of the spring season 131-133. Hanuman came across an island on his way to Lanka, and descriptions of the island also corroborate the timing of spring134."

Oak hasn't quoted the original verses. Is he playing safe, expecting non Hindu readership to ridicule if he did, and hence substituted "swam" for "jumped" or "flew across"?

Or else Oak is switching from original descriptions of Valmiki to suit convenience of avoiding embarrassing questions from non Indian, non Hindu readers, regarding his beliefs and credulity.

"Hanuman comforted Sita and promised to take her message to Rama. ... "

................................................................................................

"I have asserted that the time of Hanuman visiting Lanka was around the full moon. I want to split corroborative evidence for this assertion into two categories.

"The first category has actual descriptions of the nights on or near the full moon day and the second category has analogies involving full moon.

"While evidence from both categories can be used, and should be used as corroborative evidence, reader must realize that the evidence from the first category offers higher degree of corroboration."

No, the second category is completely irrelevant in determination of actual astronomical situations.

Any lover or parent or grandparent can - and many in India do - compare their beloved (- or the newborn) to Moon, but that doesn't require a moon in the sky at the moment; all one may deduce is that the person saying so in praise has, some time in their life, seen a bright Moon, loved it, and is comparing that feeling with seeing the beloved or infant.

"Mars assailing Vishakha – Nakshatra of Kosala283

"कोसलानां च नक्षत्रं व्यक्तमिन्द्राग्निदैवतं

"आक्रम्याङ्गारकस्तस्थौ विशाखामपि चाम्बरे

"Mars was nowhere close to nakshatra Vishakha, on 6 January 12208 BCE. Nakshatra Vishakha and Mars were present in the night sky, however that would only provide weak corroboration (if at all)."

This must be an astrological term, and Oak should have given position of Mars so a reader familiar with some elementary astrology could verify if this is so. Neither the two present in sky nor being nowhere close us relevant in this respect.

Oak does give positions.

"Mars was near nakshatra Ashlesha on 6 January 12208 BCE (only 2 nakshatra space away from nakshatra Punarvasu). ... "

Yes, it's an astrological point, Mars aspecting Vishakha with a hostile aspect; in lay terms, it's roughly at a square and an active one, where it's looking at the region fully, 90° from itself.

" ... Mars had gone retrograde and was stationed in the areas of nakshatras Punarvasu through Magha (space of four nakshatras) for seven months (June 12209 BCE – January 12208 BCE). When not in retrograde, Mars travels through one nakshatra within a period of ~20 days."

Being retrograde makes it generally more hostile in astrological terms.

"My speculation is that ‘Vishakha’ here might have referred to nakshatra Punarvasu. I reiterate that this is only a speculation and I am noting it down for the benefit of future researchers. I also want to note down information from this observation that also contradicts my speculation. Nakshatra of Kosala is described as one whose nakshatra –Devata is ‘Indra-Agni’. We do know that ‘Indra-Agni’ is devata of nakshatra Vishakha and not of Punarvasu."

No, that's not it, Valmiki did not mean Punarvasu when he said Vishakha. And it's unclear what's Indra-Agni, but both nakshatras are owned by Jupiter, not relevant for the aspect of Mars.

"I had run into similar speculation (identification of ‘Vishakha’, in addition to traditionally accepted ‘Vishakha’ next to nakshatra Chitra, with that of Punarvasu) while researching astronomy observations of Mahabharata text. I had wondered, based on few specific observations of Mahabharata text, if nakshatra ‘Punarvasu’ was also called ‘Vi-shakha’ in ancient times."

If so, there'd be a record in astrology texts. No, that's not so. It must have been another question of hostile aspect of Mars there too.

"Rama arrived, via Pushpak, to Ayodhya (Nandigram), early next day294. Bharata rendered back the kingdom of Ayodhya to Rama and Rama was coroneted as a king295."

Why is Oak confusing Ayodhya with Nandigram? Ayodhya never had another Indian name.

................................................................................................

"Conflicting Observation # 6

"Exalted grahas at the time of Rama-Janma18

"Bala Kanda of Valmiki Ramayana described the Graha-sthithi (planetary positions), at the time of Rama’s birth as follows:

"ततो यज्ञे समाप्ते तु ऋतू नाम षट समत्ययु:

"तत: च द्वादशे मासे चैत्रे नावमिके तिथौ

"नक्षत्रे अदिती दैवत्ये स्व उच्च्छ संस्थेषु पंचसु

"ग्रहेषु कर्कटे लग्ने वाक्पता इंदुना सह"

"Translation:

................................................................................................

"इदमाख्यानमायुष्यं सौभाग्यं पापनाशनम

"रामायणं वेदसमं श्राद्धेषु श्रावयेद बुध:"

"Narration of Ramayana bestows longevity, enhances fortune, dispels sins and, is truly equal to Veda. (That is why) The wise recite it."

"(Valmiki Ramayana – Uttara 111:4)"

Oak recapitulates Ramayana dates as per his research in a conclusion here.

Again, this act and desires of Sita are far more suitable to Sharad with cooling after rains and a season when an expectation of onset of winter has people attracted, longing for warmth.

She'd still like the beauty, but the urgency of sending her love in quest despite his unwillingness would be missing, and instead she'd be more inclined to be pliable to his will.

"Hanuman swam across the ocean, entered Lanka and began searching for Sita through various palaces and gardens of Lanka. ... "

Or else Oak is switching from original descriptions of Valmiki to suit convenience of avoiding embarrassing questions from non Indian, non Hindu readers, regarding his beliefs and credulity.

"Hanuman comforted Sita and promised to take her message to Rama. ... "

Here he's avoiding mention of Hanuman offering to carry her back, her refusing with gratitude and giving him a jewel as sign from her to give Rama, which he's mentioned somewhere earlier. Here's more evidence that Oak is embarrassed with thought of a non Hindu, non Indian and other, anti-Hindu, readership confronting him or ridiculing him. So he modifies his tone to suit such a readership, instead.

Laxman stops him, with the same understanding, preferring not engaging Ocean further into being more obstructive, whether due to being on side of Ravana or otherwise.

................................................................................................

"My Theory

"My theory has two theses.

"1. All astronomy observations are visual observations of the sky

"2. Ramayana author employed analogies of corresponding seasons, descriptions of nature (flowers, trees, rain, clouds, tides, stormy sea, etc.,), sky views and planetary configurations while describing the incidents of Ramayana."

Both assumptions fail, as exemplified above in various examples.

Even at the most elementary level, as an example, people speaking of exalted planets aren't implying that they were above horizon, especially when context is a baby newborn at noon, sun at Zenith and shining bright. No planets could possibly be visible then since it wasn't a solar eclipse, so obviously it's an astrological term when Valmiki Ramayana states planets being exalted at birth moment of Rama.

At other points Oak confuses in the opposite direction too, for example when Valmiki describes meeting of two brothers observed by two others in terms of two planets looking at Sun and Moon, as conjunction. But such a conjunction has all three of them - except the Sun - not visible for at least twenty-four hours, and the poet would have no use of such a conjunction as a visual poetic image.

The second point is proved similarly wrong too, over and over. Oak is overreaching to confirm his pick of timeline instead of searching further, or correcting his preference for shocking traditional interpretation by going opposite.

"Two observations of Valmiki Ramayana – (1) Lunar month of Chaitra and (2) Sun setting on Nakshatra Pushya during the season of Hemant (autumn), define a time interval of 7000 years (10500 BCE-17500 BCE) for the plausible timing of Ramayana."

Oak is giving too large a margin there.

Assuming "Sun setting on Nakshatra Pushya" is a visual description, Sun is actually in neighborhood of Mrigashirsha - close to Sirius - constellation, which is now in June but 13,000 years ago would have been in December. So the description in second point there fits 13,000 years ago, and the margin is too large in either direction.

"Plausible time interval, thus defined, not only provided rational explanation for two additional observations of Valmiki Ramayana – (1) BrahmaRashi as bright pole star and (2) Lunar month of Ashwin aligning with season of spring, but also led to additional corroboration and further narrowing down of this plausible time interval of Ramayana (10500 BCE – 14500 BCE)."

About the second point, it's not said by Valmiki but interpretation by Oak of Valmiki's verses.

Are we certain about the said bright star being Vega? Is there any reason it vouldnt be Deneb, or another bright star, aligned towards North and visible, thus used by most people for rough navigation?

"Dr. Vartak and Shri Bhatnagar have claimed to have five grahas in exalted positions during their proposed day of Rama Janma. I have shown that this is not the case for their proposed day of Rama Janma. In fact, no researcher, including myself, has shown five grahas to be in exalted positions for their respective proposals of Rama Janma."

This simply means that one must look further back in time. A good deal of Oak’s work shows some astronomical correspondence between Valmiki and timeline he proposes, but he's stretching the rest to fit, and his solution to not ginfing five exaltedplanets is simply denying the statement. This won't fo. Besides, it shouldn't be that difficult to find several possibilities of such moments in past if one begins with the five exalted planets and then looks for comets.

There's yet another possibility, apart from Deneb or another bright star in the vicinityof circle traced by precession of equinoxes, that of the supposed bright north star possibly having been a distant planet of the solar system with a long orbit, just then brightly visible.

................................................................................................

That is convenient attitude due to his hypothesis of a birth date of Rama not matching the horoscope, but Oak is wrong here. It's pretty silly to assume the first statement above, and then try to interpret anybody saying five planets were exalted at noon when Rama was born, as "they were all above horizon ", when in reality they could be visible unless it was an eclipse, and that's impossible since it was a waxing 9th date!

" ... Any proposal for the timing of Ramayana must corroborate Ramayana observation of ‘comet near nakshatra Moola’5 around the time of Rama and Vanara army leaving for Lanka, from Kishkindha. ... "

What if that was the one factor used by Valmiki as poetic license, seeing such a comet when he wrote or at another time before, and worked it into the epic? Fact is astrological interpretations of horoscope of Rama fit his life, all the more so if one does not presume that the fifth exalted planet is Venus. But the comet was written in by Valmiki, not a reported dialogue between those marching South as a significant factor.

While that may be correct, is it good enough? Not if the horoscope data, as given by Valmiki, doesn't match.

................................................................................................

"World Civilizations

"I showed in my previous book that the Mahabharata civilization (5561 BCE) turns out to be the earliest, based on dates proposed for other civilizations, e.g. Egyptian, Sumerian, Babylonian, Mayan or Inca civilizations. Archeological research on Sindhu-Sarasvati (Indus) civilization has pushed timing of this civilization as far back as 7000 BCE.

"Research presented in this book pushes the date for the earliest civilization to 13th millennium BCE (Ramayana). We should also realize that there is documented genealogy of at least 64 generations before Rama and numerous other ancient Indian history (besides Ramayana and Mahabharata) to be still explored."

................................................................................................

"Dating of Veda

"In my previous book, I wrote:

"Mahabharata observations (Fall of Abhijit) allude to the events of the ancient past as far back as 14500 B.C. and 22500 B.C. The Mahabharata text contains references, which indicate Veda and Ramayana predating the Mahabharata. Although exact timing of Ramayana is uncertain, what is certain is that Ramayana occurred long before the Mahabharata war. Ramayana and Mahabharata, both contain references to Veda. The Mahabharata War, as a chronological marker, pushes the timing of Ramayana and that of Veda, in further antiquity.

"Although I began my research on Ramayana with the timing of Mahabharata (5561 BCE) as the lower bound, I have shown that a time interval of 10000 BCE-17500 BCE can be inferred for plausible timing of Ramayana from internal astronomy observations of Ramayana. The timing of Ramayana in 13th millennium BCE (12240 BCE- 12196 BCE), as a chronological marker, pushes the timing of Veda (Rig-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda), in further antiquity, since Ramayana mentions existence of all three of them. We must remember that Vyasa (5561 BCE) did edit all Vedas and thus the timing of edited (possibly what we have today) version of Vedas is that of Mahabharata (~5561 BCE).

"The occurrence of Ramayana in 13th millennium BCE and specific reference of ‘BrahmaRashi’ as referring to North Pole Star, corroborate ‘Fall of Abhijit’ observation and also explains the significance of another observation from Mahabharata - ‘creation of Prati-srushti’ by sage Vishwamitra. We no longer have to look at ‘Fall of Abhijit’ (14602 BCE) as some isolated instance in antiquity."

................................................................................................

"River Sarasvati

"Two rivers, Sutlej and Yamuna, responsible for the grand status of river Sarasvati in Rig-Veda times (i.e. composition of Rig-Veda), have already separated from Sarasvati in Ramayana times346. Yamuna has already merged with Ganga347in Ramayana times. Thus we may have to go back in further antiquity in search of the grand Sarasvati of Rig-Veda, i.e. before 13th millennium BCE. This assertion is consistent with evidence from Valmiki Ramayana and also with findings of Francfort’s research team. Francfort’s research concluded that actual large paleocourses (of Sarasvati) of the river have been dry since the early Holocene period or even earlier. It is important to recognize that pre-Harappan settlements exist from 3700 BCE. Early Holocene refers to time interval 10000 BCE – 7000 BCE."

Any discussion of ancient history of India usually ignores all knowledge and wisdom of India, attempting to explain away a name here or there, or use one, to fit into theories developed by British to suit their convenience.

Thus the use of the name Saraswati for an ancient river with a course west across Northern plains now dried since millennia, or for one that's now a tremendous underground flow West.

But India has the epithet "Triveni Sangam" for the confluence of two of the great, considered holiest, rivers of India; the third is, without exception, named Saraswati, and considered flowing underground, independent upto the point and merging therein. At Prayag they are eager to show you the well in a temple with sweet water they claim is of Saraswati; at upper regions of Badrinath they show you a tremendous flow of a river they say vanishes underground right there, only to emerge into Sangam at Prayag.

Why not find some other name for those other, west flowing, rivers that aren't named Saraswati by India? Just to assault India?

"Studies done by Clift, et al, have shown, based on U-Pb Zircon dating, that river Yamuna flowed westwards and into river Sarasvati before 47000 BCE. This means river Yamuna was not flowing eastward and/or merging with Ganga, before 47000 BCE. On the other hand Ramayana refers to eastward flowing of river Yamuna in many places and also merging of Yamuna with Ganga. We thus have 47000 BCE as the upper limit on the timing of Ramayana, from purely geological evidence and thus anyone claiming occurrence of Ramayana more than 50,000 BP (before Present) has an obligation to explain this discrepancy (absence of eastward flowing Yamuna) for their timeline!"

The flow might have changed more than once, even if the dating and basic result about Yamuna flowing West "based on U-Pb Zircon dating" were infallible. Chances are it isn't; once upon a time India had accepted her identity falsified by British invention of Aryan Invasion Theory, now discredited completely.

Once India had accepted her knowledge branded "mythology" by Invading regimes, but later it has been proven correct in two mind-boggling parts - evolution parallels the Dashavatar, and Himalayan ranges rose out of the ocean in North of India as India watched it vanish.

So too about this. The million year theory about Ramayana need not be nixed quite so firmly based on modern research, which isn't fallible, without a convincing explanation about durations of Treta-Yuga and subsequent Yugas.

Oak’s timeline may or may not be the true one, but it gives a bound that's far better than others so far.

................................................................................................

"Out of India (OIT) Migrations

"Indo-Aryan speaking civilizations such as Mitanni were established in Northern Syria and South-eastern Turkey by 1500 BCE. Many other civilizations from this region have allusions to them migrating from the east. These civilizations need to be studied in the context of newly established Ramayana (and also Mahabharata) timeline. These could be, but not necessarily, post Mahabharata migrations to the west.

"King Pururava had two sons from Urvashi, Ayu and Amawasu. Ayu migrated to the east and his descendants were known as Kuru-Panchala and Kashi-Videhas. Amawasu migrated to the west and his descendants were known as Gandharas (Afganistan), Parsu (Persia) and Arrattas (western Iran). King Pururava is listed as descendant of Ila, and Ila is listed as descendant of Manu.

"It is true that genealogy of kings lists only prominent kings. Still, with limited list of kings available, the Pandavas are listed after a gap of 55+ descendants of king Pururava, from the line of Ayu (Kuru-Panchalas). As a result one has to search for Amawasu migration, long before the Mahabharata War.

"Genealogy of Ikshvaku dynasty shows that there were 28 kings between Rama and Brihadbala. Brihadbala was contemporary of Mahabharata and fought from Kaurava side and was killed during the Mahabharata War. This would make time of king Pururava (55-28 = 27) some 27+ generations before Rama. We must remember that genealogy of kings can provide only approximate (and only corroborative evidence) and thus we need more reliable evidence to determine the timing(s) of OIT migrations.

"During the time of Ramayana, we observe westward expansion. Shatrughna went west (from Ayodhya) to Mathura and established that place over a period of 12 years. Bharata went to Northwest India –Gandharva Pradesh (Afghanistan, NW Pakistan), along with his sons – Taksha and Pushkal, defeated Shailush, and established Takshashila and Pushkalavati over a period of five years."

................................................................................................

"Sindhu-Sarasvati Civilization

"Ramayana period of 13th millennium makes Sindhu-Sarasvati civilization a post Ramayana civilization. All phases of Sindhu-Sarasvati civilization, including early food producing era of 7000 BC (Mehagarh Phase I) are post Ramayana settlements.

................................................................................................

"Domestication of Horses (& Elephants)

"This is what I wrote in my previous book:

"While I do not accept lack of evidence for domestication of horses as evidence against my Mahabharata timeline, I consider my theory and proposed timeline of the Mahabharata War untenable if it could be proved that domesticated horses did not exist in India during 6th millennium B.C. In fact my timeline demands presence of domesticated horses in India long before 6th millennium B.C. Since nothing can be ‘proved’ per say, I am rather predicting existence of domesticated horses (in India) definitely around 5561 B.C., long time before the earliest date proposed (4000 B.C.) for domestication of horses and that too only outside India by traditional scholarship. In fact I am predicting existence of domesticated horses long before 5561 B.C., based on my assertion of Ramayana before Mahabharata, and Vedas before Ramayana and the fact that Mahabharata, Ramayana and Vedas have descriptions of domesticated horses, Ashwamedha sacrifice and horse drawn chariots.

"Valmiki Ramayana describes Ayodhya of king Dasharatha as a place crowded with horses and elephants. Ayodhya had horses of excellent breed born from areas of Kamboja, Bailika, Vanayu and elephants of high breed such as Iravata and of three classes- Bhadra, Mandra and Mirga, from Vindhya and Himalaya mountains348.

"In the light of 13th millennium BCE as the timing of Ramayana, I would state that my timeline demands presence of domesticated horses in India long before 13th millennium BCE and thus I am predicting existence of domesticated horses (in India) definitely during 13th millennium BCE, thousands of years earlier than proposed date of 4000 BCE by traditional scholarship."

................................................................................................

"Invention of Writing

"Ramayana and Mahabharata texts preserve numerous details of empirical astronomical observations of their times and those of further antiquity with respect to Ramayana and Mahabharata. Ability of these ancient civilizations to document empirical data amazes me.

"I conjecture that writing skills existed long before 3500 BCE, the date accepted as invention of writing by traditional scholarship. I do not know where to look for such evidence or the type of empirical evidence that will convince us of the antiquity of writing skills.

"Rig-Veda, Ramayana and Mahabharata contain indirect allusions to the existence of writing nevertheless I desire independent evidence. We have mention of names of warriors engraved on arrows in the Mahabharata text and name of Rama engraved on arrows in the Ramayana text."

Oak forgets that islamic invaders and regimes, for over a millennium, not only massacred and enslaved general civilians of India, chiefly Hindu and Buddhist and other non-muslim people, but - first and foremost - massacred scholars, sacked and burned libraries at universities and temples, apart from destrstructures thereof. Hundreds of thousands of manuscripts were burnt in a single library as recorded by a Chinese visitor who escaped alive.

................................................................................................

"New & Existing Problems

"This book is focused on determining the timing of Ramayana. However, there is another set of observations, e.g. Pushpak Vimana and its ability to fly from Lanka (Candy) to Ayodhya in one day, ability of Hanuman to fly with great speed, mystic missiles and such. What we read in Valmiki Ramayana, in such instances, is the outcome of that technology but no background information whatsoever. In effect, we have too many unknowns. Thus, while we can conjecture and even offer suggestions, our theories will remain untested theories until we device ingenious experiments to test them. Until then our discussion will remain inconclusive."

Oak seems not familiar with works of Ignatius Donnelly, in particular Ragnarok and Atlantis. While they are atrocious bad in references to India, it's a key here in realising that cataclysmic occurrences in past may have affected civilisations around the globe, albeit not all similarly or equally. India may have survived better, but high technology might have been lost due to various causes.

After all, a similar loss is quite apparent in viewing various monumental structures around the globe from Egypt to across South Atlantic in Mexico, Peru, Lake Titicaca, Tiahuanaco and many more, including new finds in Turkey, Göbeklitepe and more. UK too has Stonehenge and many more sites of similar kind telling of technology once common, now lost, not yet recovered.

India has comparatively had a continuous civilisation with far fewer losses, except flight, whether of Pushpak Vimana or of Hanuman. But latter is merely an extension of a normal leap common to primates as seen now.

Besides, in context of Hanuman and other Vanara army and their civilisation at Kishkindha and other regions South of Vindhya, it's well yo consider the interaction of humans with other species - Vanara as well as many others; there's Jambavan or Jambuwanta, bear; Shuka, parrot; and last but certainly not least, Jatayu, perhaps of same, but definitely of similar, species as Garuda.

This speaks of an era far prior, when humanity wasn't so far separated from other species still evolving, and this might be the truth of Ramayana being of far more antiquity, and a record of the distant past when evolution was a reality seen and lived. Million years seems reasonable.

Oak should also read Colin Wilson, particularly regarding giants (Bigfoot), Loch Ness and related topics. US troops reportedly killed a giant and carried away the body, from a cave in mountains near Kandahar. Russia has record of another one caught and kept, even bred with, humans. Progeny was reportedly normal.

"Valmiki Ramayana contains many subjects that raise many problems for our understanding of Ramayana times, when viewed through our biases towards ancient civilizations.

"My goal is to list few of these problems and thus have a ready list for future researchers. Let’s make a list of these problems. Recognize that the list is only illustrative in nature and numerous additional problems can be listed."

Perhaps the problem is not Valmiki, not any of ancient knowledge including that of India, but rather the attempt, by what's is termed "modern civilisation" here but is really the later Abrahamic creeds, as termed by another author (- Abrahamic-II, Abrahamic-III and Abrahamic-IV -), to impose a uniform world view in accordance with that of their own, with a strict materialistic structure outside that of requisite articles of "faith" required by Abrahamic-II, Abrahamic-III and Abrahamic-IV.

In particular this requires an explicit assertion of disbelief in anything not in accordance with Abrahamic-II, Abrahamic-III and Abrahamic-IV, especially with first two, and most of the last except specifics of leftist thinking that are refused by what's termed democracy by them and capitalism by left.

"(1) Location, rationale for building of Nala-Setu and challenges of finding remnants of Nala-setu in our times.

This has been always obvious, and especially so after the controversy (politicians in India denying it, while seeking to destroy it before 2014), when satellite observations and scientists (from outside India) emphatically stating that it was a man-made structure. As videos on internet show, people can see it, especially at low tides, and even walk along part of the way. It's exactly where one would expect it, stretching from Dhanushkodi to Sri Lanka.

................................................................................................

"(2) Knowledge of geography in Ramayana times: Sugriva demonstrates amazing knowledge of not only Indian subcontinent but also many parts of the world. On the other hand, Valmiki’s narrative exhibits inferior knowledge for the southern Indian geography, specifically related to descriptions of ‘Vindhya’ mountain ranges.

An example or two of the former would have been good. Perhaps it's due to a newly discovered continent, now submerged, being then not yet submerged, stretching from Africa to India and not touching either, but making travels and thereby mutual knowledge easier?

As to the latter, perhaps again the fault is of ancient knowledge being discredited simultaneously with attempts to wipe it out, beginning about a millennium ago? Imposing new terms makes that easier, looking like toddler knows more than grandma.

................................................................................................

"(3) 13th Millennium: Elephants with four, three and two tusks, status of Sarasvati and other rivers, weather and monsoon pattern in Indian subcontinent.

Why not assume Valmiki is correct, some things changed - species merged or were extinct due to another reason not yet known - and modern terminology assigning the name Saraswati to a river flowing West, either underground or disappearing in desert, is incorrect? That the latter is a small part of attempts by later Abrahamic creeds to wipe out civilisation of India, discredit knowledge of ancient India, so as to cannibalise it the more easily?

................................................................................................

"(4) Kumbhakarna and his sleeping disorder.

This may be normal for someone giant. They fid, and still fo, exist, as discussed by Colin Wilson or discovered by US troops in Afghanistan, in caves of mountains near Kandahar, apart from Northwest US, Canada, Central Asia and perhaps Siberia.

"(5) Corroboration of Treta Yuga with the timing of Ramayana: Timing of Ramayana after Rig, Yajur and Sama Veda but before Mahabharata.

This should be possible, even easier, after Oak has satisfactorily established the latest time boundary to be 10,000 - 11,000 years BCE.

................................................................................................

"(6) Corroboration and meaning of big numbers in Ramayana: e.g., Dasharatha of 77000 years, Rama ruling for 10000 years.

"(7) Corroboration of numerous incidents of Ravana’s life: Superimposition of Time and place.

"(8) Who were Vanara, Rikshas, Gridhas and Garudas?

"(9) Pushpak Vimana, counterpart of modern airplane, that was capable of carrying good number of people from Lanka to Ayodhya, a distance of ~1500 miles within a day.

"(10) Valmiki Ramayana talks of many having an ability to fly: Vanara – Hanuman, Sugriva, Angada, Gridha- Sampati, Rakshasa: Vibhishan, his ministers, Ravana’s espionage team- Shuka, Sarana, Ravana’s son-Indrajit, etc., If all residents of Lanka did not have ability to fly, how did they cross the ocean?

Much of the above is less of a problem if one let's go of a dogma of imposition by West of what's possible and what's unacceptable. Once you allow that India's knowledge is history of antiquity, of times when humanity coexisted with other species still evolving, and time limits of today might not be applicable to then, much is easier to contemplate and think of; ancient civilisations around the globe from Egypt to across South Atlantic have left their mark, still not understood, of daunting technology now lost. Donelly's work about cataclysmic occurrences destroying ancient civilisations, and Colin Wilson's work on mysteries, should help open minds.

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"(11) How did Valmiki gather information of the instances that occurred away from Ayodhya?

Oak should have asked that of himself before setting conditions for this work, and especially so before writing conclusions.

Obviously Valmiki did not witness any of it until Sita took refuge at his ashram, so some of it was as told, some probably as he visualized it with his spiritual abilities. That makes the conditions by Oak about astronomical observations - being strictly visual with no astrological connotations - even silly. Valmiki may have written in his own observations into the epic, matching timeline to events, but exalted planets or aspects are astrological terminology.

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"(12) Rakshasa were experts in conjuring tricks – Golden Deer, Indrajit bringing Sita like person to the battlefield, Indrajit fighting while invisible to others, Vidyujjiva creating human like masks of Rama and Laxman to show Sita.

Refer to Colin Wilson's mysteries. Things have happened in times much closer. Whispers of Caribbean and Brazil doings aren't necessarily ridiculous because dogmas of Presbyterian or other creeds say so. Catholic doctrine about various things, such baptismal fount or cross or chasing spirits, aren't devoid of what an author refers to as magic.

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"(13) What made Hanuman and Angada carry Rama and Laxman on their shoulders during the journey or while fighting with Ravana army?

If the opposite side in battle consists of giants, and your heroes are better termed Vamana, smaller decides of humanity, a pair of friendly apes carrying the tiny humans is only natural. At least the battle, then, is face to face, not face to knee.

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"(14) What is the significance of planned Yajna of Indrajit at Nikumbhi, which according to Vibhishan, if completed, would have turned detrimental to Rama and his Vanara army?

Just that.

Might as well begin questioning with achievements of Ravana due to his having pleased Shiva, reportedly a naïve God easier to please, so Shiva was then in need of rescuing Earth from repercussions; or even more, go back and ask about Bali and Vamana, or Narasimha.

As for the yajna, it is only a mystery - or worse - if you assume that Hindu religious rituals are empty rituals followed by blind superstitious, to benefit tricky frauds. None of which is based on anything but assaults for over a millennium by invading creeds imposed by invavading marauders out to destroy India.

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"(15) Chariot of Indra and Matali- sudden appearance from where?

Give up assumption that Abrahamic creeds are true, that their malignant of India is correct, and that anything said in India not in accordance with superiority of West is false.

Macaulay put the policy of tearing India to shreds, for better exploitation, on paper, but it began with assaults by invading Abrahamic creeds out to destroy India.

Indra wasn't - or isn't - a human, but a King of Gods.

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"(16) Sanjivani plants.

Knowledge of herbs, especially of those of Himalayan regions, is no longer up to date. No reason nevertheless to assume that it was all humbug.

Sanjivani might exist, even if it may or may not be applicable to every malaise. It wasn't, even then, or else they would have revived Dasharatha, for example. Ayodhya is closer to Himalaya.

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"Valmiki Ramayana tells us that sage Agastya and his descendants were already well settled in southern India. This means sage Agastya had moved to the southern India definitely before 12300 BCE."

Oak isn't quoting Valmiki, so it isn't clear if Valmiki said "moved", or is Oak assuming Aryan migration theory, however subconsciously, assuming Arya never were residents of regions South of Vindhya.

Fact is India migrated North towards Asia, and her residents saw the ocean North disappearing as Himalayan ranges rose out of the ocean.

Or do we assume that this knowledge thereof, always present in India, was acquired spiritually? Those are the alternatives.

So Arya were not only present South of Vindhya, but descended to occupy regions North as plains rose along with Himalayan ranges Northeast, and those ranges were their playfield as they rose, until they were seen as abide, not only of snows, but of Gods, due to heights and much more.

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"K D Abhyankar begins with Puranic story. In his words:

"The Puranic story tells us that the Vindhya Mountain tried to compete with the Himalayas in height by becoming taller and taller. People became afraid that it may obstruct the path of the sun; so they approached sage Agastya who was the Guru (teacher) of the Vindhya. As Agastya arrived, the Vindhya Mountain prostrated before him in reverence. The sage said that he was going south and that the mountain should lie prostrated till he returned. But the sage never returned thus laying the Vindhya flat for ever."

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Praise for ‘When did the Mahabharata War happen? The Mystery of Arundhati’

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"You have done a great job. I requested astronomers to consider if Arundhati had gone ahead of Vasisth in 1971, when I published 'Swayambhu' . But nobody cared. You are the first to do the great job!

"- Dr. P V Vartak (Author of 'Swayambhu' & 'Wastav Ramayana')

"Grueling and unfaltering logic

"I have to thank you for being the cause for a quantum leap in my own knowledge of general astronomy as well as Hindu astronomy / calendrical systems over a very short span of time. In some ways the effect of your book has some parallels with Rajiv Malhotra's 'Being Different', though in a very different context. RM never intended his book as a primer on Dharma / Hinduism - but nevertheless it introduced many aspects of Dharma in a light which would be new even to a practitioner. Similarly, even though I am sure you never intended your book to act as an exploration of key astronomical principles and Vedic astronomy - that has definitely been a key side benefit, at least from my perspective.

"I have verified Nilesh Oak’s elimination of "errors". A bow. Excellent.

"It is interesting how all Indologists the world over talk about linguistics and horse, but never mentions archaeoastronomy! Perhaps the focus of the national and international debate on Aryan Invasion/Migration Theory needs to change.

"Your rigorous methodology was simply a pleasure to read and that got me started off on my efforts to dabble in archeoastronomy. Please accept my best compliments on such a wonderful book.

""Indology" has been populated by linguists and my respect for their work has gone down by several notches when I look at the shoddy assumptions many are prone to make. Science and rigor the way Nilesh Oak has used seems to be unknown to these Indologists. I bet that not one of those horse bone chewers can understand what Archeo-astronomy means. Their awareness extends to looking at Archeo-asses and saying it was not Equus caballus.

"I do not want to sound obsequious, but the work you have done is nothing less than tremendous. Thank you, and keep it up.

"I am simply 'natmastak' to Shri Oak for the amazing piece of deductive reasoning applied by him in interpreting the 'Arundhati is leading Vasistha' remark. I think Shri Oak is not only on sound footing but also has clearly exhibited every 'lakshan' of a true seeker of knowledge in the finest Indian traditions. I cannot recall if he mentioned whether anybody else (other than him) thought of the EOA approach. If he is the first one, he deserves billions of thanks from all the Bharatiyas in the last 7000+ years. Oak saheb, aamcha maanacha mujra sweekar karava hee vinanti.

"It is absolutely fantastic! I loved the way Nilesh presents the cases - as experiments and problems! He did his work a lot of justice by opting for this format. The Mahabharata War did not take place anytime after 4380 BC" is really one of the biggest achievements of his work! That is the road block that needs to be placed before all those writing anything on history, especially Westerners and their lackeys doing so in India. Anybody from now on opening his mouth to refute Indian Antiquity needs to be asked, "So how do you explain Arundhati walking in front of Vashishta"?" I presume they too would be scratching their heads at least as long as Nilesh did, 15 years, before the solution to the mystery hit him!"

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CONTENTS

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For My Fans

Acknowledgments

Introduction 8 1

The Problem 13 2

Theory, Conjectures & Background assumptions 23 3

Ramayana before Mahabharata 30 4

Indian Calendar 38 5

Path of the Pole 47 6

Epoch of Ramayana 55 7

Ramayana Millennium 62 8

The day Rama left for the Forest 73 9

Rama-Sita Wedding 83 10

Ayodhya to Chitrakuta 93 11

Panchavati to Kishkindha 99 12

In Kishkindha 107 13

Searching for Sita in the South 112 14

Hanuman in Lanka 121 15

Kishkindha to Lanka 129 16

The War & Rama’s return to Ayodhya 137 17

Conflicting Observations 150 18

Theory & Proposal of P V Vartak 168 19

Theory & Proposal of Pushkar Bhatnagar 188 20

Theories and Proposals of SRS & Yardi 200 21

Ramayana Diary 207 22

A Better Theory 218 23

Implications, Predictions & New Problems 230

Appendix- A 239

Appendix - B 247

Selected Bibliography 251

Ramayana References 252

About the Author 279

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REVIEW

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For My Fans

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"Writers are like baby turtles (or like tadpoles). Hundreds of them hatch, but only a handful of them survive the trip from the sand dunes into the sea. I have worked hard to get this far, but I am also keenly aware that my fans buying books, then reading them and discussing them with the curious and the likeminded, and then telling their friends to buy them too that is what keeps me in this business."

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May 14, 2022 - May 14, 2022.

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Acknowledgments

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"Many readers of my book on timing of Mahabharata War suggested that I also research on the timing of Ramayana. Rajesh Arya suggested the title for this book. Appendix-A (Origin of Weekday Names) was based on information made available by Suhas Gurjar (Jyotirvidya Parisanstha – Pune). ... Ramesh Rahalkar brought to my attention few curious references from Ramayana and I will analyze them in my future books."

" ... Popper’s specific approach to falsification and corroboration of a theory allowed me to interpret words of Valmiki. This was a wonderful journey. Many exciting projects are also in the pipeline."

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May 14, 2022 - May 14, 2022.

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Introduction 8 1

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"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can’t hear the music.

"- Friedrich Nietzsche"

"One of the many astronomy references from the Mahabharata text made me curious. Outcome of that curiosity was my previous book. In that book, I successfully interpreted all (200+) astronomy observations from the Mahabharata text and conclusively validated 5561 BCE as the year of Mahabharata War. Even more critical, my work falsified all previous claims, and will falsify any future claim for the year of Mahabharata War anytime after 4500 BCE. I decided to do the same with astronomy observations of Valmiki Ramayana."

" ... I began my work on the dating of Mahabharata War with no predetermined timeline in mind. In fact I would have been perfectly happy to run into the conclusion that Mahabharata is nothing but a fiction. I was ready for that outcome. It is just that each single piece of evidence led me to a viewpoint away from the notion that Mahabharata could be a fiction."

" ... words engraved on Sanskrit Prize Medal:

"तत्सुखं सात्विकं प्रोक्तमात्मबुद्धी प्रसादजं"

"(Knowledge obtained through one’s own intellect and reason brings forth a most contented happiness.)

"Mahabharata is richer in astronomy observations and, by luck I could employ three distinct sets of astronomy observations: (1) Arundhati, (2) Planetary positions and (3) Bhishma Nirvana. My work led to well defined interval for the plausible year of Mahabharata War and also the specific year of Mahabharata War.

"I began my work on Ramayana by defining 5561 BCE as the lower bound of this time interval. This assumption is rather trivial since no ardent student of Indian literature disputes antiquity of Ramayana over Mahabharata. I found such sharp limit, on the lower bound for the search of Ramayana timing, extremely useful."

"The book can be informally divided into three parts: Part I (Chapters 1-5), Part II (Chapters 6-16) and Part III (Chapters 17-23). Part I presents the background necessary for comprehending exciting discoveries that follow in Part II. Part II constitutes not only the efforts to determine the broader time interval of Ramayana but also the timing of specific instances of Rama’s life over a period of more than 40 years. Part III begins with the analysis of conflicting observations from Valmiki Ramayana and also offers their resolution. Part III analyzes four specific efforts of past researchers in determining the timing of Ramayana. Part III concludes with author’s original contributions, descriptions of problems (from Ramayana) not addressed and the implications of author’s research for the timeline of ancient Indian history and world civilizations.

"Chapter one & two define the problem, propose hypothesis to solve it and outline the method of testing. Chapter three emphasizes, otherwise obvious point of, Ramayana occurring before Mahabharata, with the assistance of internal references from these two epics. Chapter four & five equip the reader with astronomy background, necessary to comprehend and enjoy rest of the book.

"While chapter six establishes broader time interval of 7000 years- Epoch of Ramayana, chapter seven establishes specific millennium of Ramayana. Chapters 8 through 16 develop, and corroborate, detailed timeline for specific instances of Rama’s life for more than 40 years of his life.

"Chapter 17 enumerates conflicting and contradictory observations of Valmiki Ramayana, discusses potential solutions and also resolutions. Critical analysis of the work of other researchers is presented in chapters 18, 19 & 20. Chapter 21 provides excellent chronological narrative of Valmiki Ramayana along with Ramayana timeline. Chapter 22 makes a case for author’s proposal as the best proposal among the available proposals of Ramayana and chapter 23 concludes with implications of this revolutionary work for, but not limited to, world civilizations, Sindhu-Sarasvati civilization, ancient Indian history and age of Veda."

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Part I (Chapters 1-5)

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The Problem 13 2

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"Our whole and sole problem in this book is to determine the timing of Ramayana. All past attempts, and there are not many, to determine the timing of Ramayana are based on inductive methodology where efforts were made to fit astronomy data from Valmiki Ramayana for a proposed date(s)."

"I want to begin with the timing of Mahabharata War - 5561 BCE as the lower bound for the timing of Ramayana. This milestone is useful however all it tells us is that Ramayana happened sometime before 5561 BCE. ... "

"The Ramayana is the oldest epic of humanity, written in Sanskrit. Literally translated, it would mean ‘Rama’s Journey’. The epic consists of 24000 verses in seven Kanda (books) and 500 Sarga (chapters). ... "

" ... Valmiki is regarded as India’s Adi-Kavi - first poet, and Ramayana as India’s Adi-Kavya - first poetry. Not that there were no poets and poetry before Valmiki or Ramayana, however when it came to epic poetry, Ramayana is the oldest epic poem, at least one that has survived. This original epic poem is known as Valmiki Ramayana, to distinguish it from many of its variations that occurred over time.

"The Ramayana is Itihasa, similar to the Mahabharata, and thus includes a narrative of past events. The incidents described in the Ramayana took place during Treta Yuga. The key incidents described in Ramayana took place at what is today called Northern India, Central India, Southern India and Sri Lanka.

"Our approach in determining the timing of Ramayana would be identical to the one employed in determining the timing of Mahabharata War, namely – interpretation of astronomical and chronological observations. I had employed references to seasons in discounting specific proposals of other researchers for the timing of Mahabharata War. This experience taught me the importance of ‘seasonal’ observations. This specific insight, i.e. descriptions of seasons and their use to determine timing of specific events, is due to Dr. P V Vartak. Observations of seasons played important role in determining the chronology of Ramayana events.

"Ramayana has fewer astronomy observations than Mahabharata. Unlike Mahabharata text, where most of the astronomy observations are related to the timing of Mahabharata War (+/- 2 years); astronomy observations of Ramayana are spread over ~30 years of Rama’s life."

"Majority of Indians who accept Rama as Avatar or great king believe that Ramayana occurred a long time ago. This arrow of time, to the past, is good enough for them. While a student of history may find such an approach frustrating, this is not a dogmatic approach. Hinduism is not based on shaky foundations of History-centrism seen in other religions of the world and may be due to this very reason, followers of Hinduism are not troubled by lack of specificity of their ancient history."

" ... We can categorize the dogmatic viewpoint, as it relates to the timing of Ramayana into two camps. Keep in mind that it is indeed illusive to pinpoint members of this group, but they do exist and you would have already come across them during educational, social, religious and family gatherings. We have two dogmatic viewpoints regarding the timing of Ramayana:

"1. Ramayana is a fiction. Thus question of determining the actual timing of Ramayana is redundant.

"2. Ramayana happened about a million years ago."

"Since Ramayana as a ‘written text’ exists in our times, the group holding first dogma may, and only may, spend time simply researching and determining the timing of when Ramayana was ‘written’. Their efforts have led to a time period of anywhere from 1300 BCE to 1800 CE, for the timing of the writing of Ramayana, since they base their efforts on the age of handwritten manuscripts."

"The group holding second dogma arrive at their million year timeline (in antiquity) based on the statement of Valmiki Ramayana that the timing of Rama was that of Treta-yuga. They combine this information with one of the many definitions of ‘Yuga’ (or more specifically – length of Yuga) and arrive at their timing of Ramayana."

" ... Dr. P V Vartak has provided a jump start, for those willing, from the second group (Ramayana occurred about one million years ago), to take their proposal to the next stage, in the form of one Ramayana observation and its plausible corroboration with geological evidence. Here comes the jump cable:

The logic of the second group for their timeline of Ramayana is derived, loosely, based on one of the many definitions for the duration of Kali, Dwapara and Treta yugas. e.g.,

"Duration of Kali Yuga = 432,000

Duration of Dwapara Yuga = 864,000

Assuming Kali-Yuga to have begun only ~5000 years ago (3102 BCE) and considering that Ramayana occurred in Treta-Yuga, one may estimate timing of Ramayana, = 5000 (Kali-Yuga) + 864,000 = 869,000 years when Treta-Yuga ended.

"And thus approximately speaking, one may propose that Ramayana must have occurred more than 800K (~one million) years ago.

"Dr. P V Vartak presents one observation1 in support of above conjecture.

"Himalaya and Vindhya, these mountains were comparable (in their height?) and appeared as if they are looking at each other.

"Vartak refers to geological view of Himalaya being one of the youngest mountains and that its height is increasing continuously, even in our times. Thus assuming,

"Height of Vindhya = Height of Himalaya, during Ramayana times,

"And employing general consensus of geologists related to rate of increase of height of Himalaya, namely ~3 feet per every 100 years,

"Vartak calculates,

"Average height of Himalaya = 29029 Feet

Average height of Vindhya = 5000 Feet

Number of year required for difference in their height, = (29029 – 5000) / (3/100) = 800967 years."

"We must realize that the evidence provided above is capable of corroborating ‘one million year’ proposal of Ramayana however such proposal must be corroborated by other independent evidence, which is lacking at present. On the other hand, there is ample evidence that goes against ‘one million year’ proposal.

"We should also mention another piece of geological evidence (Clift, et.al) that alludes to river Yamuna flowing as a separate and eastward river, as it flows today and as it flowed in Ramayana times346, 347, only after 47000 BCE. This evidence may place upper limit on the timing of Ramayana to 47000 BCE and is thus capable of falsifying any proposal that claims Ramayana to have occurred more than 50,000 years ago."

Is there any reason this shift would occur only once? That having shifted once means it couldn't have before, more than once? The rough numbers are rather neat, if Yamuna shifted 50,000 years ago and we need a million years of Himalaya growing after Ramayana.

" ... Scientific way to falsify a guess (theory) is to show how the implied consequences of a theory do not stand the scrutiny of nature, observations, experience or outcome of experiments. That is why it is important to know what the consequence of a given theory are and anyone proposing a theory must strive for definite consequences – as definite, as quantitative and as clear as possible. This is because one cannot disprove a ‘vague’ theory!"

"Many well meaning researchers are willing to make bold guesses (which is great) but do not realize the importance of aggressively searching for errors in their own theories and admitting them when found. While argumentative discussion is to be avoided (since it does not lead to growth of knowledge), it is a characterstic of mediocre mind to either not participate in critical rational discussions or simply walk away, without admitting one’s errors or without changing position, even when critical discussion and evidence has led one to such an outcome."

"A researcher interested in determining the timing of historical instances in Ramayana has only one choice for his research – Valmiki Ramayana. Of course Valmiki Ramayana as it comes to us comes in multiple versions and I have used all available, available to me, versions of Valmiki Ramayana in determining the timing of historical instances described in Ramayana."

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Theory, Conjectures & Background assumptions 23 3

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"Your work is not to drag the world kicking and screaming into a new awareness. Your job is to simply do your work – sacredly, secretly and silently, and those with ‘eyes to see and ears to hear’ will respond.

"- The Arcturians"

"Theory

"My theory has two theses:

1. All astronomy observations are visual observations of the sky

"Background Assumptions

"1. Ramayana happened before Mahabharata, and thus before 5561 BCE.

"2. Valmiki wrote Ramayana long before the occurrence (the events of Mahabharta) and composition of Mahabharata.

"3. At a minimum, Rig-Veda, Sama-Veda and Yajur-Veda existed before Ramayana

"4. The state of astronomy is as described in Ramayana

"5. It is not unreasonable to assume that Ramayana has gone through numerous recensions however no objective criteria exist to decide what is original and what is interpolated. I have used the Ramayana text as is (specific editions are mentioned elsewhere in the book). I have documented all astronomy observations corroborating and contradicting my timeline

"6. Valmiki Ramayana is the only reference text used in determining the timing of Ramayana. It is well understood that Valmiki Ramayana, as available, has transliteration and transcription errors."

"I received tremendous response to my book ‘When did the Mahabharata War Happen - The Mystery of Arundhati’. ... many readers spent enormous time (on forums but also via email communications with the author) on discussing questions such as:

"1. Why Arundhati-Vasistha (AV) observation was stated among the list of evil omens?

"2. Why would Vyasa state something as ‘evil omen’ that existed as such for thousands of years (since 11091 BCE) before the first day of Mahabharata War (16 October 5561 BCE)?

"3. Was the separation between Arundhati and Vasistha discernible at the time of Mahabharata War, to a naked eye?

"4. Did Vyasa choose this observation due to its significance for declining morals at the time of War?

"5. Why did Vyasa choose AV observation and not other star-pair observations?"

"Sir Karl Popper summarizes deductive approach as follows:

"1. All scientific knowledge is hypothetical or conjectural

"2. The growth of knowledge, and especially of scientific knowledge, consists in learning from our mistakes.

"3. Learning from our mistakes is achieved by boldly proposing new theories and then searching systematically for the mistakes we have made, i.e. by the critical discussion and the critical examination of our theories.

"4. Among the most important arguments used in this critical discussions are arguments from experimental tests. Other important arguments include consistency, testability and falsifiability of a theory."

"7. What is called scientific objectivity consists solely in the critical approach. One proposing the theory is expected to be biased towards it. This is natural. What is important for anyone proposing a theory is to realize that others will be eager to criticize existing theories and proposals, i.e. they will be eager to refute your pet theories if they can. This is the critical approach."

"9. Scientists/researchers are not any more objective than other people. It is not the objectivity or detachment of individual scientist that makes for objectivity. Rather it is the detachment and objectivity (as Marathi saying goes, “बाप दाखव नाहीतर श्राद्ध कर”) of science itself – the friendly-hostile cooperation of scientists, i.e. their readiness for mutual criticism which makes for objectivity.

"10. There is even something like a methodical justification for individual scientists to be dogmatic and biased. Since the method of science is that of critical discussion, it is of great importance that the theories criticized should be tenaciously defended. For only in this way can we learn their real power. And only if criticism meets resistance can we learn the full force of a critical argument.

"11. The fundamental role played in science by theories or hypotheses or conjectures makes it important to distinguish between testable (or falsifiable) and non-testable (or non-falsifiable) theories.

"12. Only a theory which asserts or implies that certain conceivable events will not, in fact, happen is testable. The test consists in trying to bring about, with all the means we can muster, precisely these events which the theory tells us cannot occur.

"13. Thus every testable theory may be said to forbid the occurrence of certain events. A theory speaks about empirical reality only in so far as it sets limits to it.

"14. Every testable theory can thus be put into the form ‘such and such cannot happen’."

"Inductive reasoning is the opposite of deductive reasoning. Inductive reasoning makes broad generalizations from specific observations. Even if all of the premises are true in a statement, inductive reasoning allows for the conclusion to be false. Here’s an example: "Harold is a grandfather. Harold is bald. Therefore, all grandfathers are bald." The conclusion does not follow logically from the statements."

"We can classify observations from the text of Valmiki Ramayana as follows. This classification is for the sake of clarity:

"1. Astronomy observations

"2. Observations of seasons, trees, flowers, weather, animals, vegetation, etc.

"3. Chronological – related to age of Ramayana personalities, duration of specific journeys and also observations that conflict with linear sequence of time, e.g., need to conjecture multiple Ravanas, ages of Rama and Sita at the time of scheduled coronation, length of time searching for Sita.

"4. Descriptions of Technology (Pushpak Vimana, Nala-Setu, Flying ability of Vanara and Riksha, Many heads of Ravana, Conjuring abilities of Rakshasas, fighting abilities of Indrajit, etc.,)"

"Voyager 4.5TM from Carina Soft was used throughout this book in testing astronomy observations of Valmiki Ramayana. Locations of Ayodhya, Nashik (Panchavati), Hampi/Bellary in Karnataka (Kishkindha) and Candy (Sri Lanka) were used for corresponding places in Ramayana, for simulation of appropriate astronomy observations.

"Four distinct astronomy observations were responsible for allowing me to establish a lower bound (~10000 BCE) and a plausible upper bound (17500 BCE) for the timing of Ramayana.

"The timing of Mahabharata War (5561 BCE) itself provides the lower boundary on the timing of Ramayana, without even looking at the observations of Ramayana. Four distinct Ramayana observations did provide us with latest time interval of 10000 BCE-17500 BCE, for the timing of Ramayana. This time interval of few millenniums does not eliminate possibility of Ramayana occurring in further antiquity, however it does place a distinct limit on the latest time interval when it could have occurred, i.e. Ramayana did not occur any time after 10,000 BCE."

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May 14, 2022 - May 14, 2022.

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Ramayana before Mahabharata 30 4

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"पवन:पवतामस्मि राम:शस्त्रभृतामहम

झषाणां मकरच्श्रास्मि स्रोतसामस्मि जान्हवी

"Of purifiers I am the wind, of the wielders of weapons I am Rama, of fishes I am the shark and of flowing rivers I am the Ganga.

"(Bhgavad Gita 10:31, Mahabharata – Bhishma Parva)"

"P V Vartak addressed this issue in his book ‘Wastav Ramayana’ and I reproduce number of his points below:

"1. If Ramayana was written after Mahabharata, it is not unreasonable to expect Valmiki to mention contemporary king(s) of Hastinapur. Ramayana does not have even cursory mention of the king(s) of Hastinapur. In fact the descendants of the Pandavas, beginning with Parikshita, are well known and are documented elsewhere however none of them are mentioned in Ramayana. On the other hand, Mahabharata does mention contemporary king(s) of Ayodhya (DeerghaYajna) [Mahabharata Sabha CE 27] and Kosala (Brihadbal) [Sabha 30 & Drona CE 46]. Both of them fought on the side of the Kauravas.

"2. No portion of Mahabharata is to be found in Ramayana; on the other hand ‘Ramopakhyana’ is part of Mahabharata.

"3. No mention of any of the kings of Ayodhya, subsequent to Rama, in Ramayana. This would have been the case if Ramayana was written long after Ramayana and after Mahabharata.

"4. Ramayana is called Adi-Kavya. Mahabharata author and those who prepared latter versions of Mahabharata (recensions) have not questioned status of Ramayana as Adi-Kayva or of Valmiki as Adi-Kavi.

"5. Ramayana was popular during the time of the Pandavas and Mahabharata. Mahabharata has numerous instances where personalities of Mahabharata refer to instances of Ramayana or employ analogies from Ramayana. Bhurishrava began his fast when Arujna cut the hand of Bhurishrava. Satyaki killed Bhurishrava while the latter was fasting. The Kauravas criticized Satyaki (Drona 143:85-86). Satyaki responded by saying that, “In ancient past, Valmiki has written of Indrajit telling Hanuman that while it is true that women are not to be killed, doing things that cause suffering to a enemy is one’s duty nevertheless’. This verse appears in Ramayana (Yuddha 81:29-30). Author of Mahabharata is clearly attributing this reference to Ramayana (and thus Valmiki). This also shows that Ramayana was popular and familiar to the extent Satyaki could quote a verse out of it in an appropriate context. Satyaki quoting this verse reinforces the idea (1) The verse was composed/sung by Valmiki (2) it was composed prior to Mahabharata (3) and that Ramayana was a kavya even during the time of Mahabharata. It is true that Satyaki did not use the word Ramayana but rather ‘verse sung by ancient sage Valmiki’.

"6. Bhima asserts connection between him and Hanuman by specifically referring to ‘Ramayana’ (Vana CE 147:11).

"7. During Bhima-Hanuman dialogue, Bhima tells Hanuman, that similar to Hanuman’s crossing the ocean, Bhima could have crossed the ocean and carried the mountain’. Thus Bhima shows awareness of Hanuman crossing the ocean. Bhima was also aware of Hanuman’s inflated appearance at the time of ocean crossing and requests Hanuman to exhibit that inflated form to Bhima. When Hanuman exhibited his gigantic form, Bhima expressed his surprise at the need for Rama to go and defeat Ravana, when Hanuman could have done it singlehandedly. This conversation makes it clear that Bhima was thoroughly familiar with instances from Ramayana.

"8. Yudhishthir was equally familiar with Ramayana. When he thought of playing ‘Dyuta’ for the second time, even after being defeated and excused once, he justified his decision by quoting ‘Rama falling prey to illusion of Golden deer, in spite of knowing the impossibility of its existence and states that when time of destruction arrives, even an intelligent person may not act properly. (Sabha 76).

"9. Yudhishthir requested Markandeya to tell about Rama in detail (Vana 274).

"10. Hanuman asked for a boon from Rama (Uttara 40). Vyasa quote identical details (Vana 148) in Mahabharata.

"11. Mahabharata author has quoted instances from Ramayana (Ayodhya 10:33) in Mahabharata (Vana 277:22-23), and from dialogue between Tara and Vali (Ramayana) in Mahabharata (Vana 280).

"12. Mahabharata refers to Rama as the best among the holders of Weapons (Bhishma 34, Vibhuti Yoga – chapter 10 of Bhagvad Gita).

13. While comforting Yudhishthir after the War, Krishna told Yudhishthir instances of 16 Kings and that all of them died and thus not to remain in sadness for the killing of his (Yudhishthir) own sons. Krishna tells the story of Rama as one of the 16 kings and also clearly mentions Rama going to forest for 14 years( Shanti 29).

"14. Vyasa recalls story of Rama in brief to Yudhishthir (previously told by Narada to King Srinjaya). This brief mention of Rama refers to Rama spending 14 years in forest due to order of his father, defeating 14000 rakshasas in Janasthana, Ravana abducting Sita, Rama-Ravana yuddha and killing of Ravana (Drona 59).

"15. Bhima defeated Brihadbal of Kosala and DeerghaYajna of Ayodhya (Sabha CE 27) and also conquered Uttara Kosala (Sabha CE 30). Ramayana clearly states that the area mentioned as Ayodhya, Kosala and Uttara Kosala were under one King (King of Ayodhya) during the time of Ramayana and Rama consciously split it into two. Rama established Lava in Uttara Kosala with Shravasti as its capital and Kusha in Kosala with Kushavati as its capital. Ayodhya lost its importance as center of power after that and thus it appears that Ayodhya was reinstated after Ramayana times but before Mahabharata, for DeergaYajna to be its King.

"16. Abhimanyu killed Brihadbal of Kosala (Drona 47).

"17. Bhima conquered Janaka of Videha (Sabha 30). It appears that Videha was mentioned because of its ancient connection with Ramayana.

"18. When Rama was contemplating ‘Rajasuya’ (Uttara 83), only two names (of Kings) were mentioned – Mitra and Soma, who had done Rajasuya in the past, and Bharata commented that royal families disappear if someone does Rajasuya. No one refers to Yudhishthir and his Rajasuya Yajna. This would have been the case if Mahabharata happened before Ramayana.

"19. Vyasa has quoted, casually, an analogy of Hanuman lifting the mountain, in describing the scene of Bhima lifting an elephant during the fight between Karna and Bhima (Drona 139). Same Vyasa has not mentioned this incident of Hanuman during Ramopakhyana of Mahabharata. This point is suggestive of the fact of how popular Ramayana was during Mahabharata times.

"20. Mahabharata refers to ‘Gopratar’ as renowned Holy place near Sharayu (Vana 283) and mentions that from this spot Rama left for heaven along with his servants, army and horses/elephants etc. The places associated with Ramayana were thus familiar during Mahabharata times.

"21. Harivamsha (VishnuParva, Adhyaya 31:44-45 refers to a verse uttered by Ravana and then states the verse itself

"22. After mentioning the descriptions of the construction of ‘Setu’ of Ramayana, Vyasa mentions (Vana 283) that this Setu is famous by the name ‘Nala-Setu’ (in Mahabharata times).

"23. Descendants of Rama are described in Harivamsha (Adhyaya 15). There are 21-22 descendants between Rama (Ramayana) and Brihadbala (Mahabharata). In addition Harivamsha 15:36 says that “I have recounted the legends of some (only) important personalities of this dynasty."

"1. Sagara

2. Panchajana aka Asamaj

3. Amshuman

4. Dilip

5. Bhagiratha

6. Shruta

7. Nabhaga

8. Amabarish

9. SindhuDwip

10. Ayut Ajit

11. Ritaparna (expert in game of Dice + Friend of Emperor Nala)

12. Artaparni

13. Sudasa

14. Saudasa aka Kalmashpada alias MitraSaha

15. SarvaKarma

16. Ananaranya

17. Nighna

18. (Animitra & Raghu)

19. Duliduha (from Animitra)

20. Dilipa

21. Dirghabahu aka Raghu

22. Aja

23. Dasharatha

24. Rama

25. Kusha

26. Atithi

27. Nishada

28. Nala

29. Nabha or Nagha

30. Pundarik

31. Kshema-Dhanva

32. Devanika

33. Ahignau

34. Sudhanva

35. Anal

36. Uktha

37. Vajranabha

38. Shankha aka Vyushitashva

39. Pushpa

40. Artha

41. Siddhi

42. Sudarshan

43. AgniVarna

44. Shighra

45. Maru

46. Brihadbala

"Bhagavata Purana also presents the list of descendants of Rama. (Canto 9, chapter 12) That list is as follows:

1. Rama

2. Kusha

3. Atithi

4. Nishada

5. Nabha

6. Pundarika

7. Kshemadhanva

8. Davanika

9. Aniha

10. Pariyatra

11. Balasthala

12. VajraNabha (Sagana)

13. Vidhriti

14. Hiranyanabha

15. Pushpa

16. Dhruvasandhi

17. Sudarshana

18. Agnivarna

19. Shighra

20. Maru

21. Prashruta

22. Sandhi

23. Amarshan

24. Mahaswan

25. Vishwabahu

26. Prasnajit

27. Takshaka

28. Brihadbala (killed by Abhimanyu)

29. Brihadrana

30. Urukriya

31. Vatsavriddha

32. Prativyoma

33. Bhanu

34. Divaka

35. Sahadeva

36. Brihadasva

37. Bhanuman

38. Supratika

39. Pratik

40. Marudeva

41. Sunakshtra

42. Pushkar

43. Antariksha

44. Sutapa

45. Amitrajit

46. Brihadraj

47. Barhi

48. Kritanjaya

49. Rananjaya

50. Sanjay

51. Sakya

52. Shuddodh

53. Langala

54. Prasnajit

55. Kshudraka

56. (Ranaka and Suratha and Sumitra)

"Sumitra is listed as last descendant of this dynasty in Bhagavad Purana. This is probably the time when Bhagavata was composed and thus dynasty ended here or only dynasty of Brihadbala ended here which means, Bhagavat might have been composed after this. If this was still told to a Parikshita, this must be another Parikshit, but later recension makers of Bhagavat tried to improve on the gap in narration and thus identified (mis-identified) this Parikshit with previous Parikshit (Son of Abhimanyu).

"25. Ramayana Balakanda 66:8, Devarata is described as son of Nimi, on the other hand Ramayana Balakanda 71:3-6 the descendants are described as Nimi-Mithi-Janak-Udavasu-Nandivardhan-Suketu,-Devarata.

"Bala 66:8-

"Nimi

"Devarata

"Bala 70:19-

1. Brahma

2. Marichi

3. Kasyapa

4. Vivaswana

5. Manu

6. Ikshvaku (first ruler of Ayodhya)

7. Kukshi

8. Vikukshi

9. Bana

10. Ananaranya

11. Prithu

12. Trishanku

13. Dhudhumara

14. Yuvanshwa

15. Mandhata

16. Susandhi

17. Dhruvasandhi & Prasnajit

18. Bharata-Dhruvasandhi’s son

19. Asita

20. Sagara

21. Asamaj

22. Amshuman

23. Dilipa

24. Bhagiratha

25. Kakustha

26. Raghu

27. Pravrudha-aka-Kalmashpada

28. Sankhana

29. Sudarshan

30. Agnivarna

31. Shighra

32. Maru

33. Prasrusruka

34. Ambarisha

35. Nahusha

36. Yayati (not to be confused with other lineage of Mahabharata or should we?)

37. Nabhaga

38. Aja

39. Dasharatha

40. Rama

"26. Vyasa has specifically mentioned Valmiki, the author of Ramayana numerous times. On the other hand no direct or indirect mention of Vyasa is to be found in Valmiki Ramayana."

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May 14, 2022 - May 15, 2022.

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Indian Calendar 38 5

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"India is, the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend and the great grandmother of tradition. Our most valuable and most constructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only.

"- Mark Twain

" ... in case of ‘Archeo-astronomy’, the task is to interpret ‘astronomy observations’ in the context of the celestial clock in order to predict precise and accurate timing of either an ancient document containing those astronomy observations or ancient structure that was supposedly aligned according to astronomy coordinates of that time."

As a matter of fact, it's when sun is closer to earth, and perhaps it was in distant history the day it was closest. Around turn of this millennium the date when they were closest was 3rd or 4th of January, as per a scientist at planetarium when questioned that was significance of the first.

"True solar month would/should refer to the time interval when the sun stays in the region of a specific zodiac. However this method is not followed by any existing solar calendars. In that sense, duration and names of solar months (January through December) of Gregorian calendar are arbitrary."

"The moon takes 27.3 days to make a complete round around the earth. However the earth itself moves by significant distance during this time and thus it takes the moon around 29.5 days to reach the same phase with respect to the earth. This is the lunar month.

"The length of time for the moon to make one revolution in its orbit is difficult to predict and varies from its average value. Because observations are subject to uncertainty and weather conditions, and astronomical methods are highly complex, there have been attempts to create fixed arithmetical rules. The average length of the synodic month is 29.530589 days.

"Lunar year is made up of 12 such lunar months and thus length of the lunar year is equal to 354 (29.5 x 12 = 354) days."

"In Indian calendar system (luni-solar year) a Tithi is a lunar day or the time it takes for the longitudinal angle between the moon and the sun to increase by 120. Tithi begins at varying time of day and vary in duration from 19 to 26 hours.

"Predictable rising of the sun provided the ancients a unit of time. ... Observations of the moon’s position (moving) with respect to those of nakshatras (not moving) at night provided such an opportunity. Astronomers of Ramayana time used the system of ‘nakshatra Ganana’, developed by their predecessors, to keep track of time. Nakshatra, which is loosely translated as ‘asterism’ could be either a specific star (e.g. Chitra) or group of stars (e.g. Krittika) along the ecliptic and is employed as reference in stating the positions of astral bodies (sun, moon, planets, comets, etc.).

"It appears that the desired number of nakshatras were determined based on how long it took the moon to complete one orbital cycle. Since the moon completes one cycle through its orbit in 27.3 days, 27 nakshatras were selected. ... "

"Some nakshatras have synonyms and were recognized by those synonyms, in addition to being referred to by their presiding deity. For example, ‘Bhadrapada’ is also called ‘Proshtha-pada’, ‘Dhanishtha’ is called ‘Shravishtha’ and ‘Shatabhisaj’ is called ‘Shata-taraka’. Some variations can also be seen while assigning presiding deity to a given nakshatra. These variations, fortunately, do not lead to any confusion. Existence of other evidence and cross-references within Indian literature (prior to and after Ramayana) are sufficient to understand the nakshatra referred to. The nakshatra closest to the moon on a given day is ‘nakshatra of the day’ in Indian calendar system. Determination of the nakshatra of any given day based on visual observation can lead to an error of +/- 1 day."

"Length of a lunar month = 29.5 days

"Length of a lunar Year = 12 x 29.5 = 354 days

"Length of solar year = 365.2422 ~ 365 days

"Difference between Solar and Lunar year = 365-354 = 11 days.

"Indian calendar makers came up with the ingenious idea of ‘Adhika masa (extra lunar month) to enable synchronization between the solar and the lunar year. While the method(s) to determine ‘Adhika masa’ might have changed over the millenniums, the invention of ‘Adhika masa’ is very old. Rig-Veda, but also Mahabharata, refers to ‘Adhika masa’ and thus we have reason to believe in existence of ‘Adhika masa’ during Ramayana times, since Ramayana is post Rig-Veda, but before Mahabharata. I do not require assumption of ‘Adhika masa’ in my Ramayana research. Rather the point I want to emphasize is that existence of ‘Adhika masa’ in calendar calculations during Ramayana time should not surprise us."

"Generally, Amawasya (new moon day) falls only once between two Sangrantees. However occasionally, Amawasya may fall twice while the sun is still transiting through the area of a single zodiac. The lunar month defined by this second Amawasya is termed as Adhika masa."

"Recall that usually Amawasya (new moon) falls once between two Sankrantees, Sankrantee being sun’s transit into the area of next zodiac. On a rare occasion, no Amawasya would occur between two Sankrantees and when that happens subsequent lunar month is considered as Kshaya (elapsed). Let’s us understand why this may happen.

"Minimum value between two Sankrantees is 29 days 10 hours and 48 minutes and maximum value is 31 days 10 hours and 48 minutes; whereas the minimum value between two Amawasyas (new moons) is 29 days 5 hours 54 minutes and 14 seconds and the maximum value between two new moons is 29 days 19 hours 36 minutes and 29 seconds. Therefore, it so happens, although rarely, that no Amawasya (new moon) falls between two Sankrantees. This generally happens after 19 years, or after 141 years, and sometimes after 65, 76 or 122 years. This type of situation is termed as Kshaya masa. This is possible during sun’s transit through zodiacs with smaller areas such as Scorpio, Sagittarius and Capricorn. This implies Kshaya masa most likely happens during the lunar months of Margashirsha, Pausha or Magha."

" ... In agrarian culture, the importance of synchronizing lunar and solar years is obvious. Synchronizing lunar days/months with solar year is critical for planting and harvesting of crops. Celebration of festivals, initiation and completion of Yajnas and strict adherence to rituals on specific days of the year were all meant to informally educate the society and to aid in maintenance of calendar."

"This is the difference between Universal Time (UTC) and Terrestrial Dynamic Time (TDT). TDT is based on atomic clocks, and it is the standard for precise time keeping in astronomy. It differs from UTC because the earth's rotation is slowing in an irregular manner. This is due to the earth’s gravitational interaction with the moon. We must periodically add or subtract "leap seconds" to or from UTC, in order to keep it in sync with where the earth is actually pointing. The accumulated difference between UTC and TDT is called ‘Delta T’.

"The current value of ‘Delta T’ is about 67 seconds. But in 4000 BCE, the accumulated time correction was about two days, and in much earlier periods, it was only an educated guess. Note that ‘Delta T’ affects the time when an astronomical event is observed on earth, and hence the altitude and azimuth where it is seen in the sky."

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May 15, 2022 - May 15, 2022.

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Path of the Pole 47 6

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"Per current theory in vogue, the sun and the moon exert gravitational influence on the earth’s equatorial bulge that leads to the change in direction of the earth’s axis describing a circle with a radius of almost 23.50, about the north pole of the ecliptic, once every 26000 years."

It's unclear if Oak implies here that there have been other theories about this.

"It is good to understand why precession occurs, however what is critical is to understand the consequences of the precession of equinoxes. The point of spring or autumn equinoxes, and summer and winter solstices move slowly –westward – along the ecliptic by about 50 arc-sec per year, or 10 every 72 years.

"This means that the spring equinox – where the sun crosses the celestial equator from the south to the north every spring – moves backwards through the nakshatra space (the band of sky on both sides (north and south) of the ecliptic) at the rate of one nakshatra every 950 years or so."

"Gregorian calendar – our modern calendar, which was a modification of Julian calendar, while adjusted to take into account effect of precession of equinoxes, is incapable (in the sense of Archeo-astronomy) of documenting astronomy changes (references of background nakshatras for specific cardinal points, at any given time)."

"The disadvantage of this calendar, at least archeo-astronomically speaking, is that it is disconnected from nakshatra (or zodiac) system. The disadvantage is not obvious, since these calendars (Gregorian but also Julian) were designed recently. The months do slide against the background zodiac, due to the precession of equinoxes, however the calendar itself has no provision to capture this slippage of zodiac against the Gregorian calendar month."

"In our times (1800 CE – 2100 CE), the point of summer solstice coincides with nakshatra Ardra (Yogatara- Betelgeuse). This means the sun is near nakshatra Ardra during summer solstice. The full moon occurring around this time would be opposite of nakshatra Ardra (point of winter solstice) and that point is in the region of nakshatras Moola and Purva Ashadha, which also means summer solstice coincides with lunar month(s) of Jyeshtha/Ashadha. Nakshatra Ardra is next to that of nakshatra Mrigashirsha which also means winter solstice coincides with the lunar month of Margashirsha. Using same methodology, we can identify lunar months that would coincide with spring equinox and fall equinox. The point of spring equinox is between nakshatras Purva and Uttara Bhadrapada and the point of fall equinox is between nakshatras Uttara Phalguni and Hasta. This means lunar month of Bhadrapada coincides with fall equinox and lunar month of Phalgun coincides with spring equinox."

This indicates the shift since the calendar was set. Autumn equinox was supposed to be in Ashwin, which is supposed to be beginning of Sharad, a soft cool month with bright sunshine following heavy rains of Bhadrapad.

"Cardinal Points & Seasons (Today: 2013 CE)

"Spring Equinox – U. Bhadrapada (Middle of spring – Lunar month of Phalgun)

"Summer Solstice – near Ardra (Beginning of "Varsha/Rainy season – Lunar month of Ashadha)

"Fall Equinox – near Hasta (Middle of fall – Lunar month of Bhadrapada)"

"Winter Solstice – near P. Ashadha (Beginning of winter – Lunar month of Margashirsha)

In terming it Fall, Oak’s nomenclature is of Nordic West, in particular US, not Indian, seasons.

In India, falling off of leaves occurs at end of calender year in Phalgun, right before spring, the whole process about two weeks to at most a month long throughout most of India, with surrounding living trees never really all totally bare, except possibly in Himalayan regions where it may follow the wintery regions of Nordic latitudes.

"The point of spring equinox coincided with nakshatra Uttara Bhadrapada in year 1742 CE. The point of autumn equinox was near nakshatra Hasta in 1742 CE while the point of summer solstice was near nakshatra Ardra and the point of winter solstice was near nakshatra Purva Ashadha. Since nakshatras are used as signposts to indicate location of the sun as it journeys through its path – the ecliptic, we can also say that the sun was in nakshatra Uttara Bhadrapada during Vasant Sampat (spring equinox), in nakshatra Hasta during Sharad Sampat (autumn/fall equinox), in nakshatra Ardra during summer solstice (Dakshinayan Bindu) and in nakshatra Purva Ashadha during winter solstice (Uttarayan Bindu).

"No significant change has taken place since 1742 CE. This is because the movement of the precession of equinoxes is extremely slow and it would take ~1000+ years before a change in location of these cardinal points (equinoxes and solstices), with respect to nakshatras, would become obvious."

"Abhijit (Vega): North Pole Star (12000 BCE)

"Let’s turn the clock backwards by ~14000 years to 12048 BCE, when the earth’s axis was pointing towards, and closest to the area of the star Abhijit (Vega). This point is almost opposite to that of Polaris, our current North Pole star. The point of summer solstice, then, coincided with nakshatra Uttara Ashadha, point of winter solstice was between nakshatras Ardra and Punarvasu, point of spring equinox was near nakshatra Hasta and finally point of fall equinox was near nakshatra Uttara Bhadrapada. The situation is exactly reversed! The point of winter solstice has been replaced by the point of summer solstice (2100 CE vs. 12048 BCE) and point of fall equinox has been replaced by spring equinox. This means the correspondance between these cardinal points (solstices and equinoxes) and lunar months is also reversed!

"Thus, 14000 years ago, summer solstice occurred during lunar month(s) of Margashirsha/Pausha, winter solstice occurred during lunar months of Jyeshtha/Ashadha, spring equinox occurred during the lunar month of Bhadrapada and fall equinox occurred during the lunar month of Chaitra.

"Cardinal Points and Seasons: (12000 BCE or 13500 CE)

"Spring Equinox – near Hasta (Lunar months of Bhadrapada/Ashwin/Kartika)

"Summer Solstice – near U. Ashadha (Lunar months of Margashirsha/Pausha)

"Fall Equinox – near U. Bhadrapada (Lunar months of Phalgun/Chaitra/Vaishakha)

"Winter Solstice – near Punarvasu (Lunar months of Jyeshtha/Ashadha/Shravan)"

"North Pole: Mahabharata War (5561 BCE)

"The Mahabharata War took place in 5561 BCE when fall equinox coincided, roughly, with the lunar month of Margashirsha/Pausha and winter solstice coincided, roughly, with lunar months of Chaitra or Phalgun. The Mahabharata War occurred during the season of Sharad and during the lunar month of Margashirsha. Bhishma was lying on the bed of arrows for 98 days (25 October 5561 BCE – 30/31 January 5560 BCE) until the day of winter solstice.

"No visible star (visible to naked eye) was available close to the point of North Celestial pole during Mahabharata times (5561 BCE)."

"Cardinal Points and Seasons: Mahabharata Time (5561 BC)

"Spring Equinox – near Punarvasu (Lunar months of Phalgun/Chaitra)

"Summer Solstice – near Hasta (Lunar months of Bhadrapada/Ashwin)

"Fall Equinox – U. Phalguni (Lunar months of Margashirsha/Pausha)

"Winter Solstice –U. Bhadrapada (Lunar months of Phalgun/Chaitra)"

Oak is trying to fit Indian seasons into Nordic West concerts and reality.

"The Indian calendar has 6 seasons – Vasanta (spring), Grishma (summer), Varsha (rain), Sharad (pre-autumn), Hemant (autumn) and Shishir (winter), each season, roughly, made up of two lunar months. ... "

Hemant is the winter, really, of Golden sunshine pervading heavens and earth; Shishir is seasons when bitter winds accompany falling off of leaves. Sharad is the softer cool season post heaviest rains, comparable to autumn in its clear bright sunshine and sapphire blue skies, but no turning or fall of leaves until just before spring, which occurs in Shishir.

All this is true of plains North of Vindhya. Southern peninsula has rains last much longer, until December or January, in most places, while Himalayan regions have a cycle closer to Nordic latitudes, modified by first three seasons of India conform to geographic location.

" ... Shishir begins with the day of winter solstice and Varsha begins with the day of summer solstice. Two months surrounding spring equinox constitute the season of spring and two months surrounding fall equinox constitute the season of Sharad. Two months leading to the day of summer solstice constitute season of Grishma and two months leading to the day of winter solstice constitute season of Hemant."

"Season Months (2100 CE) Months (12000 BCE)

Varsha Jyeshtha-Ashadha Margashirsha-Pausha

Sharad Shravan- Bhadrapada Magha - Phalgun

Hemant Ashwin-Kartika Chaitra - Vaishakha

Shishir Margashirsha-Pausha Jyeshtha- Ashadha Vasanta Magha- Phalgun Shravan-Bhadrpada

Grishma Chaitra –Vaishakha Ashwin –Kartika"

"It is important to keep in mind that the changes due to the precession of equinoxes are gradual and thus its effect on Indian lunar months, corresponding to specific seasons, is also gradual. For example, if we go back by 2000 years, in further antiquity, to the timing of Mahabharata observation of ‘Fall of Vega’ (14602 BCE), the seasons would shift only slightly with respect to the lunar months (in comparison to those of 12000 BC).

"In 14000 BCE,

Season Lunar Months

Varsha Pausha and Magha

Sharad Phalgun and Chaitra

Hemant Vaishakha & Jyeshtha

Shishir Ashadha and Shravan

Vasant Bhadrapada & Ashwin

Grishma Kartika & Margashirsha

"It is also critical to keep in mind that lunar day recedes by 10-11 days every year against the Gregorian calendar (or against a specific cardinal point), until correction of Adhika masa is made every 2.5 years or so. Thus, change of season for a given Indian lunar month is further slowed down by the periodic correction of Adhika masa.

"Thus, the correspondence between a season and lunar months is approximate and shift of up to one month from the list above is to be expected.

"Comprehension of the ‘precession of equinoxes’ and deep understanding of its effect on the seasons and corresponding lunar months is critical for defining (and comprehending) the broader time interval for Ramayana- Epoch of Ramayana."

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May 15, 2022 - May 15, 2022.

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Part II (Chapters 6-16)

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Epoch of Ramayana 55 7

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"One of the things a philosopher may do, and one of those that may rank among his highest achievements, is to see a riddle, a problem, or a paradox, not previously seen by anyone else. This is an even greater achievement than resolving the riddle. The philosopher who first sees and understands a new problem disturbs our laziness and complacency. He does to us what Hume did for Kant: he rouses us from our 'dogmatic slumber'. He opens out a new horizon before us.

"- Karl Popper."

Oak looks at reference to season given in Ramayana for determination of timing of coronation of Rama, or of anointing of Rama as Yuvaraj, Prince designated for throne. Since it's described in the Valmiki Ramayana as Chaitra, month of flowers blossoming everywhere, he assumes it's Chaitra, ruling out other alternatives after discussing them, and looks back in time to when possibly the timing was correct.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 1"

"Chaitra – Month in which forests bloom with flowers2"

"Almost all researchers, writing on Ramayana, assume the timing of the lunar month of Chaitra, during Ramayana times, to coincide with the Vasanta (spring) season. These researchers have casually assumed the timing of the lunar month of Chaitra to be that of spring (Vasanta) season. It is obvious that these researchers have given little thought to this observation of Ramayana."

No, they've assumed it has to mean no other alternative meaning exists.

"Ayodhya 3:4

चैत्र:श्रीमानयं मास:पुण्य:पुष्पितकानन:

यौवराज्याय रामस्य सर्वमेवोपकल्प्यताम"

"In our times (2012 CE) spring equinox is between nakshatras Purva and Uttara Bhadrapada while fall equinox is between nakshatras Hasta and Uttara Phalugni. This means in our times the lunar month of Phalgun can be considered the first month and Chaitra as the second month of spring season. Certainly Ramayana did not happen in our times."

"If one accepts that the lunar month of Chaitra coincided with the seasons of spring in Ramayana times, then, such an acceptance falsifies proposals of Vartak, Bhatnagar and SRS; purely based on this one reference.

"Thus, unless we are willing to assume that Ramayana occurred during the last 4000 years, we have to go back through a complete cycle of the precession of equinoxes to a time period of ~24000 BCE, i.e., if one still insists on the assumption of season of Vasanta coinciding with that of the lunar month of Chaitra. Alternately, we have to look for other explanations.

"Since the lunar month of Chaitra is described as month of flowers, we can safely eliminate seasons of Hemant (cold) and Shishir (very cold). That leaves us with seasons of Vasanta, Grishma, Varsha and Sharad to choose from. I have already eliminated season of Vasanta."

No, that argument is missing, unless Oak assumes going back 24,000 years is out.

"Let’s look at 5561 BCE, the year of Mahabharata War, when the point of summer solstice was near nakshatra Chitra. This means the lunar month of Chaitra coincided with (opposite of summer solstice) the first month of winter. Since Ramayana occurred before Mahabharata, we have to go back from 5561 BCe, in further antiquity.

"The next available season of flowers (i.e. going back in antiquity) that would coincide with the lunar month of Chaitra would be that of Sharad. We find that the point of spring equinox coincided with nakshatra Chitra (i.e. position of the sun near nakshatra Chitra) around 13000 BCE. This corresponds to lunar month of Chaitra coinciding with (opposite of spring) the middle of Sharad season, another season of flowers. Considering a time interval of +/- 30 degrees from this point, I could estimate time interval of Ramayana, based on this observation, to be from 10500 BCE until 15000 BCE. The rationale for estimating time interval for position of nakshatra Chitra, separated from the position of the sun by +/- 300, is due to the fact that any given season (in this case –season of Sharad) roughly extends over two months. Reader should recall that the sun travels through ~300 in one month."

Why not go back a complete cycle? Because Oak is trying to establish boundaries?

"This Ramayana observation then allows us to define the timing of Ramayana to be sometime during 10500 BCE – 15000 BCE."

No, there's no reason to presume it wasn't Vasant, and author merely asserts he's excluded it, but the argument is missing. If argument is that Ramayana wasn't of our times, there's no reason to not go back 24,000 years, a full cycle.

Author has for some other reason nixed Vasanta and going back a multiple of 24,000 years, but proceeded with arguing this part first. But Sharad isn't described in India as season of flowers, even though blossoming of most flowers continues throughout most of the year in most of India. Sharad predominantly is season of fields golden ready for harvesting.

Even so, that only fixes it at the period he picks, modulo a number of cycles of 26,000 years, since Vega being Pole star is the fixed conclusion.

But this rigorous objection or reasoning isn't applied to his own choice of season and time, except in observation that Vega is the only star that can be seen as a bright pole star. And even if his choice of Chaitra as Sharad be correct, he hasn't presented it with logic enough, but merely asserted it as proved. He's made choices further that are arbitrary, too, while traditional choices - Chaitra as Vasant - fit several other points better, such as Ashwin being the traditional month for campaigns, and more.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 2"

"Setting Sun near Pushya, during the season of Hemanta3

"Ramayana text refers to the setting of the sun near nakshatra Pushya during the season of Hemant (autumn).

"Aranya 16:12

"निवृत्ताकाशशयना:पुष्यनिता हिमारुणा:

"शीता वृद्धतरायामास्त्रियामा यान्ति साम्प्रतम"

"For the purpose of simulation, let’s assume the timing of this observation to be at the middle of Hemant season. This amounts to 300 (or 2 hrs of Right ascension before the point of winter solstice) away from the point of winter solstice and towards the point of fall equinox.

"The point of winter solstice coincided with nakshatra Pushya around 13500 BC, with that of middle of Hemant season, around 15500 BCE and with that of the beginning of Hemant season, around 17500 BCE.

"Since the observation of the sun setting near nakshatra Pushya, during the season of Hemant (autumn), is a visual observation, one may make a case for extending this period further. One may assert that nakshatra Pushya would have been visible at the western horizon, immediately after the setting of the sun. While determining specific amount of separation between the sun and nakshatra Pushya could be anyone’s guess, what we can comfortably state is that the separation of nakshatra Pushya from the position of the setting sun (during season of Hemant) does not need to be more than 30 degrees, i.e. nakshatra Pushya east of the setting sun by 30 degrees. This assumption would place lower limit on the timing of Ramayana as late as 11500 BCE.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 3 Brightly Shining North Pole Star4 Ramayana observation (Yuddha Kanda) describes the North Pole star as very bright pole star. When I read and re-read this portion of Ramayana text, I could not understand the reference to the North Pole star. I still don’t. However, many translators have translated this Ramayana text as referring to North Pole star and all researchers, as far as I am aware, also accepted this translation. I went through multiple translations, looking for word to word translation, and to my delight, found that the word ‘BrahmaRashi’ appears to have been translated by these Ramayana researchers as referring to North Pole star.

"Yuddha 4:48

"ब्रह्मराशिर्विशुद्धश्र्च शुद्धाश्र्च परमर्षय:

"अर्चिष्मन्त:प्रकाशन्ते ध्रुवं सर्वे प्रदक्षिणम

"ब्रह्मराशि = Dhruva; the very bright pole-star, र्विशुद्धश्र्च = is becoming clear; सर्वे = all; शुद्धा= the pure; परमर्षय:= great sages; अर्चिष्मन्त:= having bright light; प्रकाशन्ते= are shining; प्रदक्षिणम= going round from left to right; ध्रुवं= of Dhruva star.

"Dhruva, the very bright pole-star is becoming clear. All the pure great sages having bright light are shining around Dhruva star.

"Those of you who have read my first book (When did the Mahabharata War Happen?) may remember my interpretation of ‘BrahmaRashi’ as referring to nakshatra Abhijit (Vega). I decided to take a leap of faith and test this hypothesis."

"We had done it when we tested observation of Abhijit from the Mahabharata text (in the book- When did the Mahabharata War Happen? The Mystery of Arundhati) and we already know that nakshatra Abhijit was discontinued as nakshatra sometime around 14500 BCE (when nakshatra Dhanishtha coincided with the point of summer solstice and was given the statsu of first Nakshatra, by Indian astronomers). Star Abhijit (Vega) was closest to the point of North celestial pole around 12000 BCE. Taking a time interval of 2000 years on each side, we can then estimate the time interval for this Ramayana observation, when star Abhijit (BrahmaRashi) was North Pole star (10000 BCE – 14000 BCE) as the plausible time interval for Ramayana.

"Star Abhijit (Vega) is indeed bright, brightest of all North Pole stars along the path of Celestial North Pole. We all should be aware by this time that the Celestial North Pole charts a circle by its movement over a period of 26000 years, due to the precession of equinoxes."

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May 15, 2022 - May 15, 2022.

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Ramayana Millennium 62 8

Needle in a Haystack

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"Haystack"

"Ramayana text has many astronomy observations. Key astronomy observations, with potential to corroborate a specific timing of Ramayana incidents, are as follows:

"1. The sun setting on nakshatra Pushya during the season of Hemant (autumn) 3.

"2. North Pole star (BrahmaRashi) shining brightly4.

"3. Nakshatra Moola, nakshatra of Nairuktas, afflicted by a comet, at the time of Rama’s march along with Vanara army, from Kishkindha to Lanka5.

"4. Nakshatras of Rama and Dasharatha being afflicted by Sun, Mars and Rahu15.

"5. Five grahas in an exalted state at the time of Rama-Janma18.

"6. Conjunction of the sun & the moon with Venus & Jupiter, as Sumantra and Guha met Rama & Laxman, at Chitrakuta88.

"7. Solar eclipse at the time of Khara-Rama Yuddha94.

"8. Analogy of group of grahas rushing towards the sun and the moon, during the Khara-Rama Yuddha98.

"9. Khara looked like Mars rising in the midst of stars, during the Khara-Rama Yuddha99.

"10. Vali & Sugriva fight that began at the time of sunset appeared like a fight between Mercury and Mars in the sky107.

"11. Plausible solar eclipse at the time of second dual between Vali and Sugriva108.

"12. Vali compared with lost brilliance of the sun during an eclipse109.

"13. Two fighting brothers resembled similar to the sun and the moon in the sky110.

"14. Sugriva lost his brilliance, like the moon during an eclipse111.

"15. Southern Vanara party began their search in the south, for Sita, with star Abhijit as reference130.

"16. Timing of the full moon (and plausible lunar eclipse) when Hanuman visited Lanka 163-167.

"17. View of the sky from nakshatra Punarvasu through nakshatra Shravana, when Hanuman returned from Lanka175.

"18. Rama and Vanara army march from Kishkindha on nakshatra Hasta176.

"19. As Vanara army marched towards Lanka, Laxman and Rama were carried by Angada and Hanuman, and they appeared bright like the moon and the sun, conjoined with two major grahas (Jupiter and Venus) 177.

"20. As Vanara army marched towards Lanka, star Trishanku (Acrux) along with his Purohit, could be seen shining brightly before them (south) and Venus behind them. Bright Vishakha could be seen free from the evil influence and the bright pole star (BrahmaRashi) and seven sages shining brightly 178.

"21. The war began around the time of full moon 225, 226 and during the season of Sharad 218, 227-228.

"22. Rama-Ravana Yuddha (last day of the War): Analogy of an eclipse and Mercury attacking nakshatra Rohini282.

"23. Rama-Ravana Yuddha (last day of the War): Mars attacking nakshatra Vishakha, nakshatra of Kosalas283.

"24. Rama to Shatrughna: When summer is over and rainy season arrives, you should kill Lavana302.

"25. Shatrughna sent ahead the army (along with elephants and horses) and he himself stayed with Rama for a month and then he too departed303.

"26. After spending only one month in Ayodhya, Shatrughna left and reached ashram of Valmiki after traveling for two nights304.

"27. Sita gave birth to twin boys, the very night Shatrughna arrived at the ashram of Valmiki305.

28. Twin boys (Lava & Kush) of Sita were born on nakshatra Shravana, during the rainy season306.

"29. Analogies of Mars afflicting nakshatra Rohini, when Hanuman was searching for Sita in Lanka349 and also when Vanara army marched towards Lanka, after crossing the ocean350.

"30. Analogies of nakshatra Rohini tortured/afflicted by some evil graha 351-356."

"Ramayana text refers to time of Ravana-vadha as that of Amawasya and when Mercury was near Rohini. Ramayana text might have referred to plausible solar eclipses at the time of Khara-Rama fight, killing of Vali, killing of Ravana and plausible lunar eclipse when Hanuman met Sita in Lanka."

"I was looking for a needle and celestial needle is what I found. ... "

He's referring to a comet.

It's unclear how he'd rule out possibilities of all other comets during the 26,000 years cycles until a million years ago.

"Celestial Needle of Ramayana Text"

" ... There were indeed few promising observations however their ability to provide information was not any more precise than provided by three observations 2-4 of Error ellimination experiments one, two and three.

"Next I looked at planetary observations such as positions of slow moving grahas – Jupiter and Saturn, and found nothing meaningful on that front. The closest I came across were positions of Mars, however problem with Mars is that it completes one cycle in less than 2 years. This means one has to test positions of Mars some 3500 times (7000 years being total duration of exploration, i.e. from 10000 BCE through 17000 BCE)."

So, in short, there might be several needles out there.

" ... The Ramayana text has good number of planetary observations however they are too generic in nature (unlike those of the Mahabharata text). ... "

"Error Elimination - Experiment 4"

"Comet afflicting Moola - Nakshatra of Nairuktas5"

"Laxman refers to a comet afflicting nakshatra Moola, as Rama and his Vanara army walked towards Lanka5.

"नैरृतं नैरृतानां च नक्षत्रमभिपिड्यते

"मूलं मूलवता स्पृष्टं धूप्यते धूमकेतुना

"सरं चैतद्विनाशाय राक्षसानाम उपस्थितम

"काले कालगृहीतानां नक्षत्रं ग्रहपीडितम"

"Laxman’s Comet"

" ... The comet in Voyager simulation is identified as 2P/Encke. Interestingly, the comet only appeared (became visible) near nakshatra Moola and disappeared in the same region, as desired (anticipated) for the specific condition that would have corroborated Ramayana description. The timing of this observation was that of September 12209 BCE."

"The comet was at its brightest when in the region of naskhatra Moola. Recognize that lower the magnitude, brighter the object seen in the sky. For examle, we may say that the sun has the lowest magnitude and the moon has the second lowest magnitude among astral objects.

"Over the next many months I re-ran simulations, screening through entire time interval of the ‘Epoch of Ramayana’ (10000 BCE -17500 BCE) to identify another instance of a comet becoming visible in the region of nakshatra Moola, from list of all known comets – in Voyager simulation. I did not come across any other such instance, however, I encourage researchers to run their own simulations and report if they come across such a scenario.

"We should recognize that identifcation of a visible comet near naskhatra Moola in September of 12209 BCE provides us with a plausible year of Rama-Ravana Yuddha. However the truthfulness of such a prediction depends on the corroboration and resistance to the falsification shown by other Ramayana observations."

Again, he's fixing the game; this only says, might be. But to say there's no other possibility, one has to eliminate all possibilities up to a million years ago, going approximately by 26,000 year cycles in past with two possibilities in mind, of Vasanta in Chaitra and Sharad in chaitra. What Oak fixes do far is only the latest possible date that Ramayana could have occurred.

This is based on an assumption that earth's Pole shift did not affect the seasons and Nordic seasons adhered to the dates we know, while lunar months of India shifted.

Reality could very well be opposite.

Now Oak springs a surprise -

"Rama reached ashram of sage Bharadwaj on fifth (panchami) lunar day of the month6, 7. Specific lunar month is not specified however Ramayana text also refers to Hanuman telling Bharata, that Bharata would meet Rama, on nakshatra Pushya8, the next day, i.e. day after Panchami7. This means Rama returned to Ayodhya on the 6th day of the lunar month of Vaishakha. We can determine this day to be 13 January 12208 BCE.

"Rama was away from Ayodhya for 14 years6. He left Ayodhya on his birthday (Chaitra Shuddha 9), which was also the scheduled day of his coronation as set by king Dasharatha, when Rama became 17 years old. Rama spent 14 years away from Ayodhya and then after defeating Ravana, returned to Ayodhya. Thus, we can calculate the timing of Rama’s scheduled coronation day to be that of 20/21 December 12223 BCE. We did this by going backwards 14 years (from year of Rama-Ravana Yuddha) to the day of Chaitra Shuddha 9.

"Going backwards by 17 more years, we can estimate the day of Rama Janma to be 29 November 12240 BCE.

"King Dasharatha was approximately 60 years old at the time of Rama Janma and thus we can estimate Dasharatha’s birth year to be around 12300 BCE.

"Vishwamitra arrived at the court of king Dasharatha when Rama turned 16. Rama turned 16, per lunar month/year calculations, on 3 December 12224 BCE. Day of Vishwamitra’s arrival could be estimated to be around this day (+/-1 day).

"Vishwamitra asked king Dasharatha for Rama’s assistance for 10 days. King Dasharatha granted this request. Rama and Laxman left with sage Vishwamitra on 5 December 12224 BCE and arrived at Siddhashrama on 8 December 12224 BCE. Rama and Laxman protected six day long Yajna of sage Vishwamitra, i.e. until 14 December 12224 BCE. Next day, after Yajna was completed, Rama and Laxman accompanied sage Vishwamitra on his journey to Mithila. They reached Mithila on 18 December 12224 BCE. King Janaka was performing Yajna and 12 days were remaining for its completion. Rama lifted Shiva-Dhanushya (bow of Shiva) on 19 December 12224 BCE. King Janaka completed his Yajna on 30 December 12224 BCE.

"King Dasharatha arrived in Mithila, along with his entourage, on 29 December 12224 BCE. King Janaka sent messengers to invite his brother Kushadhwaja on 30 December and Kushadhwaja arrived in Mithila before 2 Jan 12223 BCE.

"Three kings – Janaka, Dasharatha and Kushadhwaja held discussions and finalized the day of wedding on 2 Jan 12223 BCE. Rama-Sita wedding took place on 4-5 Jan 12223 BCE.

"Rama was 17 years old at the time of his departure to the forest and since he lived away from Ayodhya for 14 years, he was 31 years old when he returned to Ayodhya. Lava and Kusha were born within a year’s time after Rama and Sita returned to Ayodhya and thus we can estimate the year of their birth to be that of 12208 BCE. Lava and Kush were approximately 12 years old when they arrived at the court of Rama to recite Valmiki’s Ramayana and thus Valmiki composed Ramayana sometime between 12208 BCE and 12196 BCE.

"We can define, albeit tentatively, 13th Millennium BCE as the Ramayana Millennium."

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May 15, 2022 - May 15, 2022.

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The day Rama left for the Forest 73 9

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"लक्ष्मीश्चन्द्रादपेयाद्वा हिमवान्वा हिमं त्यजेत

"अतीयात्सागरो वेलां न प्रतिज्ञामहं पितु:"

"Beauty may leave the moon, Himavaan may become bereft of snow, the ocean may transgress its shores but I will never violate the promise given by my father (Valmiki Ramayana - Ayodhya 112:18)"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 5"

"Scheduled Coronation of Rama & Sharad season"

"King Dasharatha decided to coronate Rama one year after Rama-Sita wedding and when Rama turned 17. King Dasharatha set the date during the lunar month of Chaitra and on nakshatra Pushya, i.e. one day after Rama would have turned 17. This day was 20/ 21 December 12223 BCE, which also occurred during the season of Sharad (pre-autumn)."

This, as said, depends on the assumption of seasons of Nordic latitudes being unaffected by Pole shift while lunar month of India shift, which isn't clear a priory.

"King Dasharatha describes the lunar month of Chaitra as that of forests blooming with flowers2, which corroborate well with the season of Sharad. Additional descriptions of rain and peacocks9 also corroborate the lunar month of Chaitra with that of Sharad season and therefore with 13th Millennium BCE.

"इति ब्रुवन्तं मुदिता:प्रत्यनन्दन्नृपा नृपम

"वृष्टिमन्तं महामेघं नर्दन्तमिव बर्हिण:"

"Numerous analogies to ‘Sharad season’ also corroborate the timing of scheduled coronation of Rama. King Dasharatha’s assembly is described as similar to the autumnal sky, spangled with bright grahas and stars that would shine brightly when illuminated by the moon10. Queen Kaikayi rising from her bed is compared with rising orb of the autumnal moon11. Rama’s palace is compared with an autumnal cloud12. When Rama heard that Kaikayi had imposed the condition on Rama to go to the forest for 14 years, he did not shed his characteristic and native joy any more than autumnal moon, with its intensely bright rays, loses its natural splendor13; and hearing Sumitra, Kausalya’s grief disappeared like an autumnal cloud14.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 6-A"

"Sun, Mars & Rahu encroaching Birth Nakshatra(s) 15

"Interpretation of all past Ramayana Researchers

"Ayodhya Kanda of the Ramayana text states:

"अवष्टब्धं च मे राम नक्षत्रं दारूणग्रहै:

"आवेदयन्ति दैवज्ञा:सूर्यानअंगारकराहुभि:"

"Almost all translators interpret above observation as follows:

"King Dasharatha says, Astrologers inform me that fearful grahas (Sun, Mars and Rahu) have taken possession of my Nakshatra."

"If we accept translation of past Ramayana researchers/translators, it would mean, the sun and Mars were close to each other and the node (Rahu) was also close to the sun and Mars.

"Fortunately location of the sun can be determined with reasonable accuracy since the lunar day, when this conversation took place, was somewhere around the day of Chaitra Shuddha 7/8. This information fixes the position of the sun somewhere between nakshatra Purva Bhadrapada and nakshatra Bharani, with median position around nakshatra Revati.

"My proposed date corroborates well for positions of the sun and Mars.

"None of the proposed dates, including mine, corroborate the position of Rahu, if we interpret the position of Rahu to be same as that of the sun and Mars. ... "

Being affected by a planet, in astrology, is not identical with being together; the latter is one of several possibilities of how it can happen.

" ... Readers or other researchers should also test positions of five grahas for such a date to see if the Ramayana observation of their exalted states can also be corroborated."

Repetition of five planets amongst those known to (and counted as planets by) humanity, until sixteenth century, being in certain positions, occurs fairly regularly, at sixty years roughly.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 6-B"

"Sun, Mars & Rahu encroaching Birth Nakshatra(s) 15

"My Interpretation

"Let’s look at the same text again. This time we will look at word to word translation and possible alternate meanings it may generate.

"अवष्टब्धं च मे राम नक्षत्रं दारूणग्रहै:

"आवेदयन्ति दैवज्ञा:सूर्यानअंगारकराहुभि:"

"दैवज्ञा - Astrologers, आवेदयन्ति - are informing, दारूणग्रहै - fearful grahas, अवष्टब्धं – have encroached, are encroaching. मे - I, राम - Rama, च - and/also, सूर्यानअंगारकराहुभि – the sun, Mars and Rahu (node of the moon)

"My translation is as follows:

"King Dasharatha says, Astrologers are informing that fearful grahas - (Sun, Mars and Rahu) have taken possession of Nakshatras of King Dasharatha and Rama."

"Ramayana text does not explicitly state nakshatra of King Dasharatha. However it can be estimated with reasonable confidence. When Dasharatha utters this statement, the timing is that of the lunar month of Chaitra and lunar Tithi of 1-2 days before Chaitra Shuddha 9. This means position of the sun is somewhere between nakshatra Purva Bhadrapada and nakshatra Bharani, with Revati as the median. Thus we can conjecture ‘Revati’ (or Uttara Bhadrapada or Ashiwni) as Nakshatra of Dasharatha."

This is sleight - taking the star of the day he spoke as his, instead of his birth star.

"Rama was born on Punarvasu and thus Punarvasu is his (birth) nakshatra. Let’s look at the positions of the sun, Mars and Rahu on 20-21 December 12223 BCE.

"The sun and Mars were together, between nashatras Uttara Bhadrpada and Revati. The location of Rahu was near nakshatra Pushya. Thus Rahu was near nakshatra Pushya (next to Punarvasu - Janma Nakshatra of Rama) on the day of scheduled coronation of Rama.

"Reader may keep in mind that the point of node (Rahu), i.e. intersection of the path of orbit of the moon and the sun (as perceived from the earth) is not a point, but rather a line and thus position of Rahu is to be seen as region of the sky rather than a specific point in the sky."

Rahu is not special in this respect. Position of other planets or celestial bodies not given with respect to earth, too, aren't seen as a point, but a region surrounding the point; this is even more so when one considers aspects and afflictions.

Oak gives a table.

"Rama's Coronation (scheduled) 20/21 December 12223 BCE

"Astral Body - Right Ascension

"Punarvasu (Pollux) - 18 hr 46 min

"Moon - 18 hr 41 min

"Rahu - 19 hr 12 min

"Ashwini (Hamal) - 13 hr 40 min

"Revati (Kullat Nunu) - 12 hr 53 min

"Mars - 12 hr 32 min

"Sun - 12 hr 25 min

"Uttara Bhadrapada (Algenib) - 12 hr 3 min

"Purva Bhadrapada (Markab) - 11 hr 18 min"

This serves to fit his timeline and corroborate its plausibility, but not to eliminate all other possibilities for a million years past beginning with the timeline he picks.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 7

"Rahu near Punarvasu

"There is one additional Ramayana observation in support of our conjecture of position of Rahu near Pushya/Punarvasu, rather than near Revati. The Ramayana text states that the King (Dasharatha) entered the residence of Kaikayi as the moon would enter the sky overcast with white clouds and marked with the presence of Rahu16. This observation corroborates position of Rahu and the moon (Rahu and moon were near Pushya/Punarvasu) on the day of scheduled coronation.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 8

"Rama Janma and positions of Sun, Mars & Rahu

"Ramayana text states17 (Ayodhya 15:3)

"उदिते विमले सूर्ये पुष्ये चाभ्यागतेSहनि

"अभिषेकाय रामस्य द्विजेन्द्रैरुपकल्पितम"

"GP version also adds another line to the above that states,

"“Lagne Karkatake Prapte, Janma Ramasya cha stithe”

"The translation would be,

"Best of Brahmanas were prepared to do Rama’s coronation after sunrise, when nakshatra was Pushya (moon in Pushya) and situation similar to the time of Rama’s birth."

"Going back by 17 years, i.e. at the time of Rama-Janma (29 November 12240 BCE), Rahu was near Ardra (i.e. still in the vicinity Punarvasu) and thus positions of Rahu at the time of Rama Janma and at the time of scheduled coronation of Rama corroborate Ramayana observation of similar astronomy conditions during Rama Janma-and his scheduled coronation17. The sun and Mars were also together and near Uttara Bhadrapada. These positions of the sun, Mars and Rahu are similar (if not identical) to their positions at the time of scheduled coronation of Rama."

Oak gives another table.

"Rama Janma 29 November 12240 BCE

"Astral Body - Right Ascension

"Punarvasu (Pollux) - 18 hr 45 min

"Moon - 17 hr 57 min

"Rahu - 17 hr 35 min

"Ashwini (Hamal) - 13 hr 39 min

"Revati (Kullat Nunu) - 12 hr 52 min

"Mars - 11 hr 5 min

"Sun - 11 hr 9 min

"Uttara Bhadrapada (Algenib) - 12 hr 2 min

"Purva Bhadrapada (Markab) - 11 hr 17 min"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 8

"Exalted Grahas @ the time of Ram Janma18

"ततो यज्ञे समाप्ते तु ऋतू नाम षट समत्ययु:

"तत: च द्वादशे मासे चैत्रे नावमिके तिथौ

"नक्षत्रे अदिती दैवत्ये स्व उच्च्छ संस्थेषु पंचसु

"ग्रहेषु कर्कटे लग्ने वाक्पता इंदुना सह

"प्रोद्यमाने जगन्नाथम सर्व लोक नमस्कृतम

"कौसल्या अजनयत रामं सर्व लक्षण संयुतम

"विष्णो अर्धं महाभागम पुत्रं ऐक्ष्वाकु नन्दनम

"लोहिताक्षम महाबाहुं रक्त ओष्तम दुंदुभी स्वनम"

Mercury couldn't be exalted if Sun is, in any horoscope.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 9

"Exalted Grahas @ the time of Scheduled Coronation"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 10

Rama leaves for the forest339

स तमन्त: पूरे घोरमार्तशब्दं महीपति:

"पुत्र शोकाभिसंतप्त: श्रुत्वा चासीत्सुदु:खित

"नाग्निहोत्राण्यहूयन्त सूर्यश्र्चान्तरधीयत

"व्यसृजन्कवलान्नागा गावो वत्सान्न पाययं

"त्रिशंकुर्लोहिताङ्गश्र्च बृहस्पतिबुधावपि

"दारुणा: सोममभ्येत्य ग्रहा: सर्वे व्यवस्थिता:

"नक्षत्राणि गतार्चीषि ग्रहाश्र्च गततेजस:

"विशाखाश्र्च सधूमाश्र्च नभसि प्रचकाशिरे

"अकस्मान्नागर: सर्वो जनो दैन्यमुपागमत

"आहारे वा विहारे वा न कश्चिदकरोत्मन:"

"All we can say is that this observation certainly does not contradict our timeline."

Or he might question if this "menacing aspect" has an interpretation. Vishakha is mentioned specifically, and it's described as menacing might have an astronomical reality.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 11

"Return of Rama to Ayodhya on Pushya 6-8

"Most of the Ramayana researchers simply assumed that Rama returned to Ayodhya on Chaitra Shuddha 9, after 14 years away from the kingdom. ... "

The original celebration of these two might be correctly interpreted in Bengal where they celebrate Durga Puja and Kalie Pouja, respectively, on Vijaya Dashamie and Deepavalie.

But throughout North India and especially in Hindi belt, Vijaya Dashamie is Ravana Dahana, after nine days of Navaratri, which elsewhere in India are Mother Goddess worship festival.

So why anyone would assume, or conclude that Rama returned in Chaitra is a puzzle.

If these dates are facts quoted from Valmiki, what explains the celebrations in North India in Hindi belt of Ramayana through Ashwin Navaratri and Ravana Dahana on Vijaya Dashamie?

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May 15, 2022 - May 15, 2022.

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Rama-Sita Wedding 83 10

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Oak quotes Valmiki about birth of Rama -

"ततो यज्ञे समाप्ते तु ऋतू नाम षट समत्ययु:

"तत: च द्वादशे मासे चैत्रे नावमिके तिथौ

"नक्षत्रे अदिती दैवत्ये स्व उच्च्छ संस्थेषु पंचसु

"ग्रहेषु कर्कटे लग्ने वाक्पता इंदुना सह

"प्रोद्यमाने जगन्नाथम सर्व लोक नमस्कृतम

"कौसल्या अजनयत रामं सर्व लक्षण संयुतम"

"This also means the timing of the end of Putra-kameshthi yajna was same as that of the lunar month of Chaitra and thus, that of Sharad season. ... "

Then, yet again he does it, and presumes or pretends conveniently that a poet's simile is literal -

"हर्षरश्मिभीरुदयोतम तस्यान्त: पुरमाबभौ

"शारदस्याभिरामस्य चन्द्रस्येव नभोsशुभि:"

"This Ramayana observation corroborates our assertion of lunar month of Chaitra coinciding with the Sharad Season."

No, that's a lie.

"ऊनषोडशवर्षो मे रामो राजीवलोचन:

"न युद्धयोग्यतामस्य पश्यामि सह राक्षसै:"

"Sage Vishwamitra had almost completed his yajna23 however Rakshasas were not allowing it to be completed24 and sage Vishwamitra wanted Rama’s assistance for 10 nights25.

"अभिप्रेतमसंसक्तमात्मजं दातुमर्हसि

"दशरात्रं हि यज्ञस्य रामं राजीवलोचनं"

Oak is discarding every hint not in accordance with his fixation on Sharad and Chaitra together.

He assumes Rama was sixteen only within a day or so of arrival of the sage; but barely sixteen describes someone closer to youth, not yet seventeen, not quite adult, and does not necessarily mean "a day over sixteen years".

The conjecture is without base, and the rest is, again, based on his tower of unproven assertions.

Next, he mixes Valmiki Ramayana's description, with his own interpretation and his choice of assumptions as to dates.

"Rama & Laxman with Vishwamitra:

"First 10 days

"Day 1:

"Rama and Laxman left Ayodhya, along with sage Vishwamitra, the next day, 5 December 12224 BCE. This is the day when they walked for around 12 miles along the bank of river Sharayu26. Sage Vishwamitra awarded ‘Bala’ and ‘Atibala’ vidya to Rama27 and they slept/stayed on the bank of river Sharayu for the night28. This is the end of 5 December 12224 BCE.

"Day 2:

"Next morning29 they continued their journey and arrived at the confluence of rivers Sharayu and Ganga30. They reached a hermitage by the evening and spent their night most comfortably31. This day was 6 December 12224 BCE.

"Day 3:

"Next day (7 December 12224 BCE), they crossed Ganga32 in the morning and entered Tataka-van. They encountered Tataka; sage Vishwamitra ordered Rama to kill her and Rama killed Tataka. They spent the night at Tataka-van 33.

"Day 4:

"Next morning sage Vishwamitra congratulated Rama on his accomplishment and that day (8 December 12224 BCE) imparted Rama with the knowledge of various missiles34. At the end of the day they arrived at Siddhashrama, their final destination where they had to guard the yajna for next six days and nights. They slept at Siddhashrama. This was the end of 8 December 12224 BCE.

"Day 5 through 10 (Six days of yajna):

"Rama and Laxman took rest overnight35 and in the early morning (9 December 12224 BCE), after ablutions, stood in front of sage Vishwamitra. The sages of Siddhashrama explained Rama and Laxman their duties of guarding the yajna, day and night, for six days36. Rama and Laxman guarded the yajna for six days and nights (9-14 December 12224 BCE). Rakshasas - Marich and Subahu attacked on 14 December 12224 BCE i.e. on the last day of Yajna. While Marich was thrown away by an arrow of Rama, Laxman killed Subahu. Yajna was completed and sage Vishwamitra felicitated both brothers as he offered his evening prayers. This was the end of 14 December 12224 BCE.

"Siddhashrama to Mithila

"Day 11:

"Next day (15 December 12224 BCE) both brothers, after a goodnight’s rest, were ready37. Sage Vishwamitra told two princes about the upcoming yajna planned by king of Mithila and suggested that they should accompany Vishwamitra and his companions to Mithila38. They left for Mithila with many (100s) carts39 and after traveling a long distance, spent their night on the bank of river Shona40. Sage Vishwamitra and two princes continued to converse into the late night and when half of the night was over, the moon slowly rose in the sky41. The timing of moonrise on this day, per Voyager simulation, was at 11:40 PM."

"Error Elimination – Experiment 13

"Late Moonrise41

"Late moonrise during the travel of Vishwamitra and Rama/Laxman corroborates well with my proposed timeline."

An assumption of a Chaitra Vasanta would take us around instead to an Ashwin campaign which accords well with Sharad season as well as with Vijaya Dashamie occurring during this campaign.

"गतोsर्धरात्र: काकुत्स्थ कथा: कथयतो मम

"निद्रामभ्येहि भद्रं ते मा भूद्विघ्नोsध्वनीह न:

"निष्पन्दास्तरव: सर्वे निलीना मृगपक्षिण:

"नैशेन तमसा व्याप्ता दिशश च रघुनन्दन

"शनैर्वियुज्यते संध्या नभो नेत्रैरिवावृतं

"नक्षत्रतारागहनं ज्योतिर्भिरवभासते

"उत्तिष्ठति च शीतांशु: शशी लोकतमोनुद:

"हलादयन्प्राणिनां लोके मनांसि प्रभया विभो"

"Day 12:

"Next day (16 December 12224 BCE), they woke up early and proceeded on their journey42 and reached river Ganga by noon43. Sage Vishwamitra told two brothers many stories related to river Ganga. They decided to stay on the bank of Ganga as evening approached44.

"Day 13:

"Next day, having passed through a beautiful night45 they decided to cross river Ganga46. This day was 17 December 12224 BCE. They saw city of Vishala and Vishwamitra educated them on its history. They spent the night at Vishala and traveled to Mithila the next day47.

"Day 14:

"They reached the ashram of Gautama. Vishwamitra told them history of Ahalya48. This day was 18 December 12224 BCE."

"Arrival in Mithila

"They reached Mithila the same day49. King Janaka, hearing the news of arrival of sage Vishwamitra, came in a hurry to welcome him. King Janaka told them that the total duration of yajna would be 12 days50. (It is not clear if yajna was going to continue for 12 more days or the total duration of yajna was 12 days). In either scenario, the yajna would have continued for next 12 days, i.e. 19-30 December 12224 BCE.

"Rama lifts Shiva-Dhanushya (Bow of Shiva)

"Next morning (19 December 12224 BCE), king Janaka invited sage Vishwamitra and two princes to his court. Rama broke the Shiva-dhanushya on this day51. King Janaka expressed his wish to offer Sita to Rama, in marriage, and asked permission of sage Vishwamitra to send messengers to Ayodhya, to convey the news to king Dasharatha and request Dasharatha to arrive at Mithila52."

Oak proceeds with count of the days.

"The day of Rama-Sita wedding appears to be that of Vaishakha Shuddha 11 or 12. ... "

Which, if we revert to Chaitra being Vasanta, and their having gone in Ashwin, is instead a wedding at muhurta of Tulasi Vivaha, instead! That's far more fitting a proposition.

Oak drives on again to establish his timings chosen and asserted.

Here, the conclusion is based on his own assumption and choices, and hence not valid. But then he states -

And the opposite choice of Vasanta would provide suitable timelines beginning 13,000 years prior, and other modulo 26,000 years cycles, until several upto a million years ago.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 17

"Sharad Season

"Rama is described, after receiving mystic spells of Bala and Atibala, as shone like the glorious sun, casting innumerable rays, of the Sharad season (pre-autumn) 66."

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May 15, 2022 - May 16, 2022.

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Ayodhya to Chitrakuta 93 11

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"Sage Markandeya and other sages urged sage Vasistha, the next day (27 December 12223 BCE), to install any of the princes on the throne immediately (GP Ayodhya Chapter 67). Royal sage Vasistha dispatched the messengers to Kekaya capital in order to fetch Bharata and Shatrughna right away, and messengers left immediately and reached Kekaya capital by the fastest route (GP Ayodhya Chapter 68)."

"While I could not determine when exactly Bharata/Shatrughna arrived in Ayodhya, what we do know from the Ramayana text is that they were present to perform 10-11th day rituals (10-11 days after the death of king Dasharatha) for deceased Dasharatha80. ... "

If the messenger went by the fastest route, and it took the sons seven days to arrive after they had the message, and total was within 11 days, did they dawdle on their way home? Or was the fastest route unsafe for the princes who had had every education on par either the other two brothers?

"Ramayana text describes the assembly of Bharata (in Ayodhya) similar to the full moon night of Sharad season, enriched with well known grahas84.

"तामार्यगणसम्पूर्णा भरत: प्रग्रहां सभां

"ददर्श बुद्धिसम्पन्न: पूर्णचन्द्रां निषां इव

"आसनानि यथान्यायमार्याणां विशतां तदा

"अदृश्यत घनापाये पूर्णचन्द्रेव शर्वरी"

"Of course this is an anology. Full moon of autumn is all we can deduce and that key grahas were also in the sky. I conjucture this day to be that of 26 January 12222 BCE. Evening sky, just after sunset, would have shown Saturn, Jupiter, Venus and Mercury along with the full moon."

"Bharata and his army camped at the town of Shrigaverapura (ruled by Guha) and then proceeded to the hermitage of sage Bharadwaja85. Bharata met sage Bharadwaj and then proceeded to search for Rama around Chitrakuta. The timing seems to be that of the autumn (late Sharad – Hemant) as trees shed flowers and are compared with dark rain bearing clouds pouring water86."

"Bharata reached Rama’s hut at Chitrakuta and met with Rama, Laxman & Sita on 10 April 12222 BCE (Amawasya of Ashadha). On Pratipada (first day) of Shuddha Paksha during the lunar month of Shravana (11 April 12222 BCE), Bharata asked for sandals of Rama87. This was the peak of winter, i.e. one month into the Shishir season."

Or it would be correct as to season but Magh instead, if Chaitra is Vasanta instead; again, Maagha fits better with its connotations in ancient culture of India, of purification.

"I proposed 10 April 12222 BCE as the day when Bharata met Rama at Chitrakuta. I made this proposal based on Ramayana text where meeting of Bharata and Rama is described as88

"तत: सुमन्त्रेण गुहेन चैव समीयतू राजसुतावरण्ये

"दिवाकरश्चैव निशाकरश च यथाम्बरे शुक्रबृहस्पतिभ्यां"

"The two princes (Rama & Laxman) then embraced Sumantra and Guha, in the forest, similar to the sun and the moon conjoining with Venus and Jupiter in the heaven.

Oak really ought to consult someone who'd know. And of that description there are plenty in his own community.

"ददर्श च वने तस्मिन्महत: संचयान्क्रुतां

"मृगाणां महिषाणां च करीषै: शीतकारणात

Now, heaps of dried dung of deer and buffaloes could be stored for the purposes of cooking in general. However, Ramayana text specifically refers to its purpose, i.e. to protect against cold."

Correct. But not the next part.

"Ramayana text is not explicit on when Bharata returned to Ayodhya from Chitrakuta. It appears that Bharata left Chitrakuta and arrived at Ayodhya by the end of spring, i.e. during Grishma season91.

"पुष्पनद्धां वसन्तान्ते मत्तभ्रमरशालिनीं

"द्रुतदावाग्निविप्लुष्टां क्लान्तां वनलतां इव"

"Ayodhya appeared like a flowering creeper laden with blossom in the spring-tide, frequented by a swarm of intoxicated bees, that is suddenly consumed by a forest fire and withering.

"This timing appears to be corroborated by comparison of otherwise joyful times that accompanied this season of Grishma (end of spring) 92."

Oak is again imposing exactitude of time on a poetic description. Ayodhya was appearing like that not fue to the season's heat, when it would be only natural, but due to the devastation of hearts brought on by the exile of Rama and Sita, devastation to hearts of not only family but the very kingdom.

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May 16, 2022 - May 16, 2022.

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Panchavati to Kishkindha 99 12

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"Rama, Laxman and Sita spent more than 10 years343 at Dandakaranya. At the end of this 10 year period, they moved to Panchavati, near modern day Nashik, Maharashtra, India."

Oak is not quoting Valmiki here, nor accepting that it's his own convenience to assume this.

Why assume that the three moved more than once? Maharashtra was, as far as we know, possibly in or even all of, Dandakaranya.

"वसतस्तस्य तु मुखं राघवस्य महात्मन:

"शरद्व्यपाये हेमन्त ऋतुरिष्ट: प्रवर्तते

"Ramayana text provides descriptions of Hemant season at Panchavati and describes the incident of Shurpanakha. I conjectured, based on this sequence, that Shurpanakha arrived at the residence of Rama either during the season of Hemant (autumn) or sometime afterwards. This is the time of January-March 12210 BCE.

" ... Khara, Dushana and their army marched towards Rama, terrible clouds showered inauspicious blood-red water. A solar eclipse also occurred on this day."

"The great graha Rahu (node) obscured the sun, the wind blew violently and the sun became lusterless. Stars flashing like fireflies appeared when there was no night."

"बभूव तिमिरं घोरमुद्धतं रोमहर्षणं

"दिशो वा विदिशो वापि सुव्यक्तं न चकाशिरे

"क्षतजार्द्रसवर्णाभा सन्ध्याकालं विना बभौ

"खरस्याभिमुखं नेदुस्तदा घोरा मृगा: खगा:"

"Voyager simulation shows the beginning of solar eclipse around 4:30 PM, and 2 hours before the sunset (6:30 PM) at Panchavati/Nashik."

"While exchange of hot words began between Khara and Rama, Khara resumed the fight by stating that while he wanted to say much more, he would not as the sun was setting and that may cause interruption in the fight, which he wanted to avoid96

"कामं बह्यपि वक्तव्यं त्वयि वक्ष्यामि न त्वहं

"अस्तं गच्छेद्धि सविता युद्धविघ्रस्ततो भवेत"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 25

"The season of Khara-Rama fight97

"The time of this fight, as proposed by me – 28 March 12210 BCE, falls during the peak of winter (10 days after the winter solstice). The description of nature at the time of this solar eclipse corroborates this season.

"संलीनमीनविहगा नलिन्य: पुष्पपङकजा:

"तस्मिन्क्षणे बभुवुश्च विना पुष्पफलैर्द्रुमा:

"Lotus ponds found their lotuses withered and their fishes and aquatic beings hidden in its depths. The trees were bereft of their blossom and fruits97."

The verse isn't saying it was so, much less saying it was so due to winter; its a poet's description of the fright invoked by the demonic spirits Descending in the fired in form of Khara and his army that had this instant effect.

Nature in India is unlikely, especially in regions South of Vindhya, to be bereft of leaves and flowers in winter, especially in Hemanta. Shishir has leaves fall, but never all trees simultaneously - and in most regions of India the regeneration, with new leaves and/or flowers, is almost immediate, the whole process complete in less than a month.

Effect of Khara to have been that of a forest fire is what is intended by the Poet, not effect of winter, especially not that of Hemant, which is pleasant in most of India most of the time.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 26

"Grahas attacking Sun & Moon98

"Valmiki compares Khara, Dushana and their companions attacking Rama and Laxman with that of grahas attacking the sun and the moon98.

"सा भीमवेगा समराभिकामा सुदारुणा राक्षसवीर सेना

"तौ राजपुत्रौ सहसाभ्युपेता मालाग्रहाणामीव चन्द्रसूर्यो"

Again, Oak will misinterpret this poetic description as literal.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 27

"Khara in the middle of his army

"Similar to Mars risen in the middle of Stars99

"Khara reached Rama’s hermitage and Valmiki describes Khara standing in the middle of his army, similar to Mars in the middle of stars99.

"स तेषां यातुधानानां मध्ये रतो गत: खर:

"बभूव मध्ये ताराणां लोहिताङ्ग इवोदित:"

"Voyager simulation shows beginning of solar eclipse at around 4:40 PM, with Mars close to the zenith, i.e. at the center of the visible sky over Panchavati."

"Error Elimination – Experiment 28

"Sun became invisible100

"Ramayana text mentions ‘sun becoming invisible’ few times in the context of Rama’s fight with Khara. Granted the reason for the covering of sun is said to be due to unlimited arrows in the sky covering the sun100.

"शरजालावृत: सूर्यो न तडा स्म प्रकाशते

"अन्योन्यवधसंरम्भादुभयो: सम्प्रयुध्यतो:"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 29

"Ravana & Marich in Panchavati

"Time of Vasanta/Grishma101

One must say, this somehow isn't fitting to the coming event; a date post Ashadha Ekadashie seems better suited, especially one after full Moon, or even better, Amawasya.

"सशैलं सागरानूपं वीर्यवानवलोकयं

"नानापुष्पफलैर्वृक्षैरनुकीर्ण सहस्रश:

"कदल्याढकिसम्बाधं नालिकेरोपशोभितं

"सालैस्तालैस्तमालैश्च तरुभिश्च सुपुष्पितै:"

Shravana and Bhadrapada are heavy rains, which ultimately benefit India's earth, but mid to late Ashadha fits the descriptions above better than Grieshma.

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May 16, 2022 - May 16, 2022.

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In Kishkindha 107 13

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" ... two brothers (Sugriva and Vali) resembled so closely with each other that Rama could not distinguish Vali from Sugriva. As a result, Sugriva lost heart and ultimately ran away from the combat to Rishyamukha Hill.

"The timing of this first fight appears to be that of the late afternoon and just before the sunset. The day was 21 September 12210 BCE. Mercury and Mars were next to each other on the western horizon.

Error Elimination – Experiment 34

Clash between Mercury & Mars at Sunset107

"Valmiki describes this fight between two brothers, as they rushed towards each other, as if to finish the fight before impending sunset, and compares them to a clash between Mercury and Mars in the heavens107.

"तं श्रुत्वा निनदं भ्रातु: क्रुद्धो वाली महाबल:

"निष्पपात सुसंरब्धो भास्करोsस्तटादिव

"तत: सुतुमुलं युद्धं वालिसुग्रीवयोरभूत

"गगने ग्रहयोर्घोरं बुधाङ्गारकयोरिव"

"Vali who possessed extraordinary strength rushed forth as the sun would slide from the edge of the western mountain. Tumultuous and terrible dual ensued between Vali and Sugriva, resembling a clash between Mercury and Mars in the heavens.

"Voyager simulation shows Mercury and Mars next to each other, immediately after the sunset, on 21 September 12210 BCE."

" ... The timing of this second fight appears to be on the very next day, and possibly in the morning. The day was 22 September 12210 BCE. There appears to be a solar eclipse on this day."

"Error Elimination – Experiment 35

"Sun along with galaxy of stars in the sky108

"कृताभिज्ञान चिन्हस्त्वमनया गजसान्हया

"विपरीत इवाकाशे सूर्यो नक्षत्र मालया

"Sugriva with creeper around his neck is compared with the sun adorned with galaxy of stars in the sky.

"Voyager simulation shows solar eclipse on the morning of 22 September 12210 BCE. This possibility is further corroborated by additional four observations.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 36

"Sun lost its splendor109

"स तु रोषपरीताङ्गो वाली सन्ध्यातपप्रभ:

"उपरक्त इवादित्य: सद्यो निष्प्रभतां गत:"

"On hearing the challenge of Sugriva, embitterment overspreading on all his limbs, Vali, golden-hue in color, was immediately rendered non-luminous like the eclipsed sun.

"The solar eclipse began in the morning, so Vali who looked bright like morning light (usha), immediately became dark like the eclipsed Sun.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 37

"Resembled Sun-Moon in the sky110

"तौ भीमबलविक्रान्तौ सुपर्णसमवेगिनौ

"प्रवृद्धौ घोरवपुषौ चन्द्रसूर्याविवाम्बरे"

"The two brothers – who were endowed with terrible might and prowess, were intent on finding out vulnerable points of each other – resembled like the moon and the sun in the sky.

Oak is exasperating in his glitches at ordinary observations and such. Eclipses aren't quite as rare, as he himself points out. He ought to know better.

It's one thing fixing on Amawasya for some other reason, but the verses here aren't a corroboration.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 38

"Moonless sky = Amavasya111

"तस्मिन्निपतिते भूमौ हर्यृषाणां गणेश्चरे

"नष्टचन्द्रमिव व्योम न व्यराजत भूतलं"

"Vali fell to the ground, and the earth appeared as dark as the sky with the moon disappeared from it (Amawasya). "

"Error Elimination – Experiment 39

"Moon devoured by Rahu- Eclipse in general112

Moon isn't seized by Rahu, and solar eclipse is Sun occulted by Rahu; a Lunar eclipse is when Moon is occulted, by Ketu, opposite of Rahu.

"इत्येवमुक्त: सुग्रीवो वालिना भ्रातृसौहृदात

"हर्ष त्यक्त्वा पुनर्दीनो ग्रहग्रस्त इवोडुराट"

"Listening to the advice of Vali, Sugriva felt wretched and looked like the moon seized by Rahu. ... "

Lunar eclipse, further, has effect of Moon being visible throughout, but a dull red, not brilliant golden or silver as normally it does.

If Oak is shying from Hindu or Indian terminology, best avoid it completely rather than mess it with ignorance or lies.

" ... The reference is definitely to an eclipse. ... "

" ... As I have shown, the day was that of Amawasya ... "

Amawasya is by calculation according to his whim, not shown via an irrefutable, incontrovertible piece of evidence, and certainly not indicated by Valmiki.

Yes, and so much of the forced sticking of his interpretation by author on verses is either false or redundant, apart from the Poet not having said it was Amawasya.

Oak is browbeating here, but everyone knows - and Oak seems to forget - that an eclipse is when Sun is in shadow for at most four hours, but Moon is not visible for six times that duration.

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May 16, 2022 - May 16, 2022.

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Searching for Sita in the South 112 14

................................................................................................

"यत्र वन्ध्यफला वृक्षा विपुष्पा: पर्णवर्जिता:

"निस्तोया: सरितो यत्र मूलं यत्र सुदुर्लभं

"न सन्ति महिषा यत्र न मृगा न च हस्तिन:

"शार्दुला: पक्षिणो वापि ये चान्ये वनगोचरा:

"स्निग्धपत्रा: स्थले यत्र पद्मिन्य: फुल्लपङ्कजा:

"प्रेक्षणीया: सुगन्धाश्च भ्रमरैश्चापि वर्जिता:"

Oak mistranslates शार्दुला: as tigers, whereas it actually means lions.

"Significant time elapsed and exhausted Vanara party was encouraged by Angada and Gandhamadan to resume their search."

"Error Elimination – Experiment 42

"A considerable time elaspsed115

"कालश्च नो महान्यात:सुग्रीवश्चोग्रशासन:

"तस्माद्भवन्त: सहिता विचिन्वन्तु समन्तत:"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 43

"A considerable time elapsed116

"आसेदु: तस्य शैलस्य कोटीं दक्षिण पश्चिमां

"तेषां तत्र एव वसतां स कालो व्यत्यवर्तत"

That description is clearly not in the verse above, so one wonders if he made it up, until finding it in the next verse - separated by a subtle!

"Error Elimination – Experiment 43

"Time of Early Spring117"

He's making up that interpretation of it being spring, yo suit his own constructs.

"गिरिजालावृतान्देषान्मार्गित्वा दक्षिणां दिशं

"क्षुत्पिपासा परीताश्च श्रान्ताश्च सलिलार्थिन:

"अवकीर्णं लतावृक्षैर्ददृशुस्ते महाबिलं

"तत: क्रौच्चाश्च हंसाश्च सारसाश्चापि निष्क्रमं

"जलार्द्राश्चक्रवाकाश्च रक्ताङ्गा: पद्मरेणुभि:

"अस्माच्चापि बिलाद्धंसा: क्रौच्चाश्च सह सारसै:

"जलार्द्राश्चक्रवाकाश्च निष्पतन्ति स्म सर्वश:

"नूनं सलिलवानत्र कूपो वा यदि वा हृद:

"तथा चेमे बिलद्वारे स्निग्धास्तिष्ठन्ति पादपा:"

Again the mismatch - that translation above belongs to the verses below.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 44

"Season of Spring118

That spring is Oak’s own imposition on Valmiki’s verses.

"ततस्तं देशमागम्य सौम्यं वितिमिरं वनं

ददृशु: कांचनान्वृक्षान्दीप्तवैश्वानरप्रभां

सालांस्तालांश्च पुंनागान्ककुभान्वनजुलान्धवां

चंपकान्नागवृक्षांश्च कर्णिकारांश्च पुष्पितां

तरुणादित्यसङ्काशान्वैदूर्यमयवेदिकां

नीलवैदूर्यवर्णाश्च पद्मिनी: पतगावृता:

महद्भि: कान्चनैर्वृक्षैर्वृतं बालार्क संनिभै:

जातरूपमयैर्मत्स्यैर्महद्भिश्च सकच्छपै:"

Nowhere has Valmiki said so far that it was spring, and the whole description of lack of water etc fits summer in India, not winter.

"Valley of Swayamprabha had creepers surrounding the trees, lotus plants surrounded by birds, trees laden with blossom and fruits and with honeys of various kinds available on them. The palaces were filled with collection of aloe wood and sandal-wood, pure foods as well as roots and fruits and delicious honey."

Again, the verses are below. The Sandalwood trees fix this description to be of hills and forests of Karnataka.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 45

Season of Spring119

"ददृशुस्तत्र हरयो गृहमुख्यानि सर्वश:

"पुष्पितान्फलिनो वृक्षान्प्रवालमणिसंनिभां

"कांचनभ्रमरांश्चैव मधूनि च समन्तत:

"मणिकांचनचित्राणि शयनान्यासनानि च

"महार्हाणि च यानानि ददृशुस्ते समन्तत:

"हैमराजतकांस्यानां भाजनानां च संचयां

"अगरूणां च दिव्यानां चन्दनानां च संचयां

"शुचीन्यभ्य वहार्याणि मुलानि च फलानि च

"महार्हाणि च पानानि मधूनि रसवन्ति च

"दिव्यानामम्बराणां च महार्हाणां च संचयां

"कम्बलानां च चित्राणामजिनानां च संचयां"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 49

Time of Spring & Expiration of time122

"ते वसन्तमनुप्राप्तं प्रतिवेदय परस्परं

"नष्टसन्देशकालार्था निपेतुर्धरणीतले"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 50

"Full month elapsed within the Valley itself123

"शासनात्कपिराजस्य वयं सर्वे विनिर्गता:

"मास: पूर्णो बिलस्थानां हरय: किं न बुध्यते"

"Error Elimination – Experiment 51

Season of Vasanta coinciding with Lunar Month of Ashwin124

"वयम अश्वायुजे मासि काल संख्या व्यवस्थिता:

"प्रस्थिता: सो~पि चातीत: किमत: कार्यमुत्तरम"

"By proper calculations from the time of our departure, now is the lunar month of Ashwin and even that month seems to have passed. What should we do now?"

Small correction - equinox refers, not to mid season, but to day and night being of equal length of time.

In fact autumn equinox is almost nowhere middle of autumn, nor is vernal equinox middle of spring, in Nordic latitudes where those four are the seasons.

As for New England, it can and often does snow on commencement in May when crocuses are out - and June is really spring, not March.

"I want readers to recognize that this estimate falls within the broader time interval defined by me in chapter six, i.e. from 10000 BCE through 17500 BCE. In fact we can update our figure from chapter six as follows:"

Oak provides here a diagram of various fittings within his timelines.

"Sampati, elder brother of Jatayu, arrived at the scene. Vanara party came to know of Sita being stationed at Lanka through Sampati."

But didn't Rama and Laxman already know of her abduction by Ravana, having met Jatayu and heard from him, before his death?

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May 16, 2022 - May 16, 2022.

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Hanuman in Lanka 121 15

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"वाच्यावाच्यं प्रकुपितो न विजानाति कर्हिचित

"नाकार्यमस्ति क्रुद्धस्य नावाच्यं विद्यते क्वचित"

Having said, at end of last chapter -

Now Oak seems embarrassed, and backtracks in translation of Valmiki Ramayana.

Oak hasn't quoted the original verses. Is he playing safe, expecting non Hindu readership to ridicule if he did, and hence substituted "swam" for "jumped" or "flew across"?

" ... following observations corroborate time of Hanuman visiting Lanka as that of spring and early summer.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 53

"Analogy of Second month of Spring – Month of Madhava144

"Valmiki employs analogy of second month (solar month of Indian calendar) of spring (Madhava) in describing sleeping women of Ravana in his gynaeceum. This is of course only an analogy and by itself, it does not signify much. However, in the context of numerous descriptions of the spring, it is relevant. At a minimum, it corroborates with the time of Hanuman’s visit to Lanka.

"लता नां माधवे मासि फुल्ला नां वायु सेवनात

"अन्योन्य माला ग्रथितं सं सक्त कुसुमो च्च यं

"व्यतिवेष्टितसुस्कन्थमन्योन्यभ्रमराकुलं

"आसीद्वनमिवोद्भूतं स्त्रीवनं रावणस्य तत"

"Solar months of ancient Indian calendar are as follows: Madhu & Madhava (Vasanta season), Shukra & Shuchi (Grishma season), Nabha & Nabhasya (Varsha season), Isha & Urja (Sharad season), Saha & Sahasya (Hemant season), Tapa & Tapasya (Shishir season)."

"Presence of Ashoka flowers during Hanuman’s visit to Lanka corroborate the time of his visit as that of late spring through early summer. Descriptions of Ashoka-vana also corroborate the timing of spring/late spring when Hanuman visited Lanka 147, 148."

"I have asserted that the time of Hanuman visiting Lanka was around the full moon. I want to split corroborative evidence for this assertion into two categories.

"The first category has actual descriptions of the nights on or near the full moon day and the second category has analogies involving full moon.

"While evidence from both categories can be used, and should be used as corroborative evidence, reader must realize that the evidence from the first category offers higher degree of corroboration."

No, the second category is completely irrelevant in determination of actual astronomical situations.

"Since Hanuman was in Lanka for only four days, timing of his return from Lanka is essentially same as that of his timing of visiting Lanka. Valmiki Ramayana describes the sky when Hanuman was returning from Lanka and provides corroborative evidence for my proposed timeline.

Error Elimination – Experiment 58

Hanuman returning from Lanka – View of the sky 175

"Hanuman left from Lanka early morning. This appears to be the day, two to four days removed (and after) from the full moon day. Valmiki describes the sky as follows.

"The moon appeared attractive similar to a white water-lily, the sun appeared like a crane (Karandava bird) while nakshatras Pushya and Shravana like swans. Nakshatra Punarvasu appeared like a big fish, Mars appeared like a crocodile. Airavata appeared like an island and nakshatra Swati like a swan175.

"What these descriptions tell us is that in the early morning, when Hanuman flew from Lanka, portion of the sky – from nakshatra Punarvasu through nakshatra Shravana, was visible. Full moon-like moon was also visible and so was Mars. Let’s see if these descriptions can corroborate for 27 August 12209 BCE. The actual day of Hanuman returning from Lanka is 2-3 days after the full moon day. This means I had to test this scenario for 29-30 August 12209 BCE.

"Vartak has interpreted ‘Airavata’ as referring to the portion of the sky that represents ‘Scorpio’, i.e. nakshatras Anuradha through Moola, where the astral landscape (of Scorpio) can be perceived as the trunk of an elephant. I accept his interpretation. All that is described (with exception of actual yogatara of Shravana - Altair) can be corroborated for 29-30 August 12209 BCE."

Interesting, that last part.

"Let’s evaluate Ramayana observations for the day of 30 August 12209 BCE, three days after the full moon day of 27 August. Just before the sunrise, at 5:50 AM, the bright moon (three days after the full moon day) was in the area of Pushya, Mars was next to Pushya and the area of the sky from nakshatra Punarvasu through nakshatra Jyeshtha was visible. We had to wait for another hour – 6:50 AM, before the sun was above the horizon and still another hour before area of Shravana could be visible.

"Two other grahas, not mentioned by Valmiki, Venus and Jupiter, were also visible. Of course we can talk of only those things that are mentioned. Even then I wondered why Valmiki may not have mentioned Venus and Jupiter in his descriptions of the sky. I noticed in Voyager simulation that Jupiter was in perfect or near perfect conjunction with star Magha (Regulus) and this could explain why mention of Jupiter might have been missed. ... "

It's unclear what he means by the last part. There's no rule that one may not look at or notice Jupiter if it's close to a particular star, and if there's an occultation, it would be of not Jupiter but of the star. Next to any celestial body, except Sun, Moon and Venus, and occasionally when Mercury is bright which is not usually so, Jupiter is the brightest of all celestial objects in sky.

"No logical reason for non-mention of Venus can be suggested."

There's no difference there between the two cases. Valmiki may simply not have found anything apt to say to include the two bright planets.

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May 16, 2022 - May 16, 2022.

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Kishkindha to Lanka 129 16

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"Error Elimination – Experiment 60

On the way to Lanka

Conjunctions of Moon & Sun, with Jupiter and Venus177

"कपिभ्यामुहयमानौ तौ शुशुभते नरर्षभौ

"महद्भ्यामिव संस्पृष्टौ ग्राहाभ्यां चन्द्रभास्करौ"

"Valmiki provides an analogy of the sun & the moon having conjunctions with two major grahas in describing the scene of Angada and Hanuman carrying Laxman and Rama on their shoulders, respectively.

"Jupiter and Venus are not specifically mentioned, however, interestingly, translator of GP edition suggests them to be Jupiter and Venus. Such a conjunction, assuming identification of two major grahas with Jupiter/Venus is valid, could be seen on 24-25 October 12209 BCE. The sun was in conjunction with Venus while the moon (full moon) was in conjunction with Jupiter. This was the full moon of the lunar month of Magha. The time was that of Varsha (rainy) season."

Oak forgets, repeatedly, that Valmiki isn't writing as an astrologer, and if something isn't visible, he can only mention it as a dialogue by someone else about astrological relevance thereof, or as a poetic image. For a poetic image of togetherness and visibility and impressive view, these four - Sun, Moon, Venus and Jupiter - must be grouped opposite in two pairs, and that's only possible with Venus above Sun on either horizon while Moon should be with but not occultism Jupiter, and at sufficient enough distance so as to be bright.

So a Venus in conjunction with Sun wouldn't do for a poet. Only an astrologer, aware of the fact, may comment on it, but not as a visual image to compare the two pairs here.

"Error Elimination – Experiment 61

"On the way to Lanka Additional astronomy observations178

"Laxman describes multiple omens of this time period. All directions appeared clear and the sun was shining brightly. Venus was shining with its bright light. Dhruva (BrahmaRashi), the very bright pole star, along with Saptarshi (seven sages) could be seen shining clearly4. Star Trishanku - Acrux (star named after King Trishanku, born in Ikshvaku dynasty and Rama’s ancestor) was shining in the front (south) along with his minister (another prominent star next to star Trishanku). Nakshatra Vishakha, nakshatra of Ikshvaku dynasty, was free from any evil influence. On the other hand, nakshatra Moola, nakshatra of Rakshasa (Nairukta) race, was being afflicted by a Comet (Comet Laxman) and its bright tail of light. This is certainly bad omen for Rakshasa race and indicates their destruction5."

If Laxman describes Venus as shining bright, it was visible, hence not in conjunction with Sun; so the date Oak picks with a conjunction won't do.

"The comet was at its lowest magnitude (brightest) around 10 September 12209 BCE."

"Exciting Digression: Migration of Agastya to the South

"Bright star of Agastya (Canopus) was conspicuous by its absence-both in the sky but also in the Valmiki Ramayana descriptions! This is because, I assert that star Agastya (Canopus) had attained a position close to the South Celestial Pole (SCP) and thus was not visible from latitudes in India, in 12000 BCE. Star Agastya (Canopus) would have been barely visible (just above horizon) from Colombo (Sri Lanka), in 12000 BCE.

"Thus, if the story of sage Agastya crossing Vindhya and naming of star Agastya (Canopus) based on the bright star (Canopus) observed by sage Agastya is true, then I estimate the timing of sage Agastya crossing Vindhya long time before Ramayana (12000 BCE), and specifically before 16000 BCE, and more likely sometime around 25000 BCE through 20000 BCE."

"Rama and the Vanara army climbed down from the Mahendra and sought out most excellent woodland adjoining the sea for their camp185. Rama and party had already anticipated the problem of crossing the ocean and thus asked everyone to camp there while remaining alert for covert enemy attacks186. Sugriva and Laxman organized the camp and the entire Vanara army looked like a second glorious sea187. The leaders of Vanara army began surveying the sea, while days and nights went by188. The Vanara army remained stationed comfortably on the seashore189. While it is difficult to estimate the exact duration of Vanara army at the seashore, it appears that they were at the seashore for a long time190.

"While Rama and his Vanara party were meditating on ways to cross the ocean; Ravana, in Lanka, held consultations with his ministers. Ravana and his team were certainly surprised by the deeds of Hanuman (his destroying Lanka and killing many of Ravana’s brave warriors). Ravana appears to have an efficient espionage network for he was well aware of the movement of Rama and his Vanara army towards Lanka191. When Ravana asked for the advice of his ministers, all of them indulged in self-praise and tried to inspire confidence in Ravana. His general, Prahasta, vowed to kill Rama while Vibhishan, Ravana’s younger brother, suggested returning Sita to Rama and thus save Lanka. Ravana ordered Prahasta, his general, to make adequate arrangements for the defense of Lanka and to inform Kumbhakarna of the whole situation. Vibhishan requested Ravana to return Sita to Rama. Ravana was annoyed to hear such words and castigated Vibhishan with harsh words.

"Vibhishan, along with his four ministers, approached Rama on the other side of the ocean in no time192 via air 193, 194. After deliberations with key Vanara members, Rama decided to accept Vibhishan on his team. Rama assured Vibhishan of latter’s safety, upon which Vibhishan descended to the ground, along with his four ministers195.

"Hanuman and Sugriva approached Vibhishan to seek advice for means to cross the ocean196. Vibhashan’s advice appears to be vague, at least as narrated in Valmiki Ramayana, for all Vibhishan seemed to have said is that king Sagar, ancestor of Rama, had successfully dealt with the sea in the past and Rama should able to accomplish the same197. However joint interpretation of Vibhishan’s words, by Laxman and Sugriva, makes it amply clear that Vibhishan had also suggested building a bridge over the ocean198."

"Nala constructed Nala-setu, the extensive bridge, a hundred yojana long, in the heart of the sea. The entire bridge was built by Vanara army. Some held staffs (for measuring the length and breadth of the bridge) while others collected the material. Parts of the bridge were constructed of reeds, logs and trees that were covered with blossom. A tumultuous sound arose from the rocks that were being hurled into the sea 208.

"On the first day of construction, Vanara army completed 14 yojana and on the second day they completed 20 yojana. They completed 21 yojana on the third day, 22 yojana on the fourth day and with 23 yojana on the fifth day, they completed the construction of Nala-setu209. Nala-setu across the sea, constructed by Nala, looked charming like the Milky Way in the sky210.

"Valmiki Ramayana presents evidence for the beginning of the War, some 2-3 days after the full moon day. It also presents evidence for the end of War, with Rama killing Ravana, on Amawasya day. Other than these observations for the beginning and the end of War, there are few, if any, references that clearly allow us to estimate the duration and also to predict timings of specific war incidents.

"Duration of the War appears to be of less than 15 days, and more likely of 13 days. Dr. P V Vartak have assumed the duration of War equal to 13 days.

"Since I have shown that Rama was at the ashram of Bharadwaj on Vaishakha Shuddha 5 and he met with Bharata, the day after, on Vaishakha Shuddha 6, I could estimate that the War began on Chaitra Krishna Tritiya and ended on Chaitra Amawasya. This means that the war began on 25 December 12209 BCE and ended on 6 January 12208 BCE."

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May 16, 2022 - May 16, 2022.

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The War & Rama’s return to Ayodhya 137 17

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"The fighting was indeed tiring and warriors were longing for the sunset to occur231. Soon, the sun set on the western horizon and the night began232. This appears to be the end of the first day of war, however, the fighting continued into the night233. In fact, the fight continued into the late night234. The day was 25 December 12209 BCE."

" ... Soon Rama returned to consciousness but felt sad at the plight of Laxman.

"Valmiki Ramayana presents an analogy of the setting sun and I have interpreted it to mean, possibly, the end of the second day of war238. In due course, even Laxman returned to consciousness. ... "

Is Oak skipping over Hanuman being sent by Rama when Sushena, medical sage, needs a particular herb that grows only on a specific mountain in Himalayan regions? Embarrassed again?

Oak has seemingly another version instead.

" ... Hanuman approached Jambavan and clasped his feet. Jambavan asked Hanuman to fly to Himalaya in a hurry and then approach mount Kailas via mount Rishabha and bring specific herbs255. In the middle of that night, Hanuman took off for Himalaya256. This day was 1 January 12208 BCE."

"Hanuman reached the mountain, and since he could not recognize specific herbs, he uprooted many of them and returned to Lanka by early morning257. All Vanara warriors, even those severely wounded, were healed due to the application of those herbs, as if awake from the sleep at the end of night (morning) 258."

"Valmiki Ramayana states that Indrajit brought darkness to the battlefield by implementation of his conjuring tricks. I have no way of corroborating or falsifying this statement of Ramayana. ... "

Nobody expected he would! Why so embarrassed, when this work is establishing timeline of Ramayana, which some do brand as non history, anyway? Why not ignore the detractors and proceed?

Here's another time Oak gives a different version of the known story.

" ... Laxman also attacked Ravana and in turn Ravana threw javelin at Laxman. The javelin pierced Laxman and he fell to the ground. Rama felt despondent to see the plight of Laxman however Rama had no option but to continue the fight with Ravana. Laxman regained consciousness under the treatment of Sushena, with the help of herbs brought in by Hanuman, second time, from mount Mahodaya279. Rama was pleased to see Laxman back to normal and expressed his resolution to kill Ravana before the sunset280."

But he's still not mentioned Hanuman bringing a whole mountain because he couldn't figure out which herb exactly was wanted. Also, wasn't it Mount Sumeru in Himalayan regions that he brought? As it is, his flying to and from, bringing herbs, is feat enough; Oak need not feel he's required to justify Hanuman bringing a whole mountain over.

"Sage Agastya approached Rama and asked him to recite ‘Aditya Hridaya’ which Rama did and felt supremely exhilarated. ... Matali reminded Rama of astra given by sage Agastya285. Rama charged the astra with mystic spell and discharged at Ravana. It pierced the heart of Ravana and Ravana fell to the ground.

"This day was 6 January 12208 BCE."

"Error Elimination – Experiment 62

"Analogy of an eclipse + Mercury stood assailing Rohini282

"व्यथिता वानरेन्द्राश्च बभूवु: सविभीषणा:

"रामचन्द्रमसं दृष्ट्वा ग्रस्तं रावणराहुणा

"प्राजापत्यं च नक्षत्रं रोहिणी शशिन: प्रियां

"समाक्रम्य बुधस्तस्थौ प्रजानाम शुभावह:

"The day was Amawasya. At 7:45 PM, Mercury and nakshatra Rohini (also Krittika) were on the western horizon. The observation corroborates well for 6 January 12208 BCE."

"Error Elimination – Experiment 63

"Mars assailing Vishakha – Nakshatra of Kosala283

"कोसलानां च नक्षत्रं व्यक्तमिन्द्राग्निदैवतं

"आक्रम्याङ्गारकस्तस्थौ विशाखामपि चाम्बरे

"Mars was nowhere close to nakshatra Vishakha, on 6 January 12208 BCE. Nakshatra Vishakha and Mars were present in the night sky, however that would only provide weak corroboration (if at all)."

Oak does give positions.

"Mars was near nakshatra Ashlesha on 6 January 12208 BCE (only 2 nakshatra space away from nakshatra Punarvasu). ... "

Yes, it's an astrological point, Mars aspecting Vishakha with a hostile aspect; in lay terms, it's roughly at a square and an active one, where it's looking at the region fully, 90° from itself.

Being retrograde makes it generally more hostile in astrological terms.

No, that's not it, Valmiki did not mean Punarvasu when he said Vishakha. And it's unclear what's Indra-Agni, but both nakshatras are owned by Jupiter, not relevant for the aspect of Mars.

If so, there'd be a record in astrology texts. No, that's not so. It must have been another question of hostile aspect of Mars there too.

"Rama arrived, via Pushpak, to Ayodhya (Nandigram), early next day294. Bharata rendered back the kingdom of Ayodhya to Rama and Rama was coroneted as a king295."

Why is Oak confusing Ayodhya with Nandigram? Ayodhya never had another Indian name.

"Shatrughna killed Lavana and stayed in Madhupuri for 12 years (12208 BCE through 12196 BCE) 307. After this he decided to visit Rama308 and after seven days of journey, reached the ashram of Valmiki309. While Shatrughna was enjoying hospitality of Valmiki and after he had taken his meal and was resting, he heard the deeds of Rama, in a melodious form, accompanied with the sound of the musical instruments with proper beats310.

"Thus Valmiki composed Ramayana (Bala Kanda through Yuddha Kanda) by the year 12196 BCE."

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May 16, 2022 - May 16, 2022.

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Part III (Chapters 17-23)

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Conflicting Observations 150 18

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"During their Vanavas, as soon as they left mount Chitrakuta, Rama, Laxman and Sita visited the ashram of sage Atri & his wife Anusuya. Sita mentioned to Anusuya that her father (King Janaka) felt anxiety and decided to marry Sita when she became of age suitable for union with her husband312. This essentially tells us that Sita was of almost the same age as that of Rama, since Rama himself was 16 years old when he married Sita."

She could be younger, possibly.

"Rama and Laxman lived in the cave, outside Kishkindha, during this time. Rama describes heavy rainfall and its effects, and states that the then lunar month was that of Bhadrapada (Prosthapada) 322. Rama also recounts how Bharata, his younger brother, would have taken vows for the rainy season, while staying outside Ayodhya at Nandigram, during Ashadha323.

"Let’s build a picture of rainy season based on this information from Valmiki Ramayana. Interpreting these references at face value 320-323, we can say that lunar month of Shravana was the first month of rainy season and lunar month of Bhadrapada was the peak of rainy season, and that rainy season lasted from lunar month of Shravana through lunar month of Kartika."

Ashadha, Shravana and Bhadrapada are rain months throughout India, and during Ashwin, Kartika it continues raining in South India. North of Vindhya and in Maharashtra, however, Ashwin brings clear skies.

"In our times (2000 CE), rainy season begins in India during the lunar month of Jyeshtha and ends at the end of the lunar month of Bhadrapada."

Rain during Jyeshtha is extremely uncommon in most of India. So much so, usually rains begin in June in Mumbai, but in 1991, they were a month late - and began promptly on first day of Ashadha, since there had been an Adhika masa, Jyeshtha.

"Therefore, if one insists on validating lunar months of Shravana through Kartika as the only time of rainy season during Ramayana, one is left with only other option of speculating that Ramayana occurred during the previous round of ‘precession of equinoxes’, i.e. during ~28000 BCE, when rainy season would have aligned with lunar months of Shravana through Kartika. Of course, number of observations discussed in ‘Error Elimination Experiments 1 through 66’ would falsify any such timeline – 2000 BCE, 28000 BCE or any other timeline in antiquity that aligns rainy season with lunar months of Shravana through Kartika. In short, if taken at a face value, we have an unsolvable problem.

"We have to look elsewhere for the answer."

"In our times (2000 CE), the rainy season is described (in India) in the language of astronomy mile posts using two distinct methods. One method, already discussed, is to describe the rainy season using position of the full moon with respect to background nakshatras, i.e. lunar months. The other method is to describe the rainy season based on position(s) of the sun with respect to the background nakshatras.

"For example, in Indian state of Maharashtra, the pre-monsoon rain is called ‘मृगाचा पाऊस(Mrigacha Paus)’. This is because during this time (i.e. pre-monsoon) the sun is near nakshatra Mrigashirsha (मृगशीर्ष)."

"I conjecture that the word ‘masa’ was used in the sense of duration (~30 days) and/or time, and words such as ‘Shravana’, ‘Kartika’ and ‘Proshthpada’ as referring to nakshatra of the sun for designating beginning, end and peak of rainy season, respectively, as is also done in our times. The remaining observation of Bharata making his vows on ‘Ashadha’ simply refers to nakshatara Ashadha (not unlike Nakshatra Mrigashirsha) as the time of pre-monsoon season.

"If my conjecture is valid, not only it solves the unsolvable (no matter what) problem of incompatibility of these 320-323 obsevations with the rest of Ramayana observations, but also corrborate them well for my proposed timeline of late 13th Millennium BCE!"

" ... Dr. Vartak has analyzed this issue in detail and while his proposed timing (7300 BCE) and his proposed season for taking away of Sita (Hemant season as opposed to my proposal of Vasanta) are different than mine, ... "

"Conflicting Observation # 6

"Exalted grahas at the time of Rama-Janma18

"Bala Kanda of Valmiki Ramayana described the Graha-sthithi (planetary positions), at the time of Rama’s birth as follows:

"ततो यज्ञे समाप्ते तु ऋतू नाम षट समत्ययु:

"तत: च द्वादशे मासे चैत्रे नावमिके तिथौ

"नक्षत्रे अदिती दैवत्ये स्व उच्च्छ संस्थेषु पंचसु

"ग्रहेषु कर्कटे लग्ने वाक्पता इंदुना सह"

"Translation:

"The planetary positions for the day of Rama-Janma, proposed by me, do not corroborate with this Ramayana observation."

Oak does face saving by calling astrological tenets "of our times" and claims yo neither accepting nor rejecting them. This however won't do, and his proposed date is in need of correction to fit the necessary condition. It shouldn't be too difficult to feed the horoscope into the program and ask for matching dates for a million years.

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May 16, 2022 - May 17, 2022.

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Theory & Proposal of P V Vartak 168 19

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"In case of Ramayana, the timeline I have proposed (12200 BCE) is separated by some 5000 years from the timeline proposed (7300 BCE) by Dr. Vartak. I would not have dared to attempt researching on the timing of Ramayana, in the absence of his research, and in the absence of the awareness of his methodology. I should also mention that at least on two occasions, during his research, as documented in his book, he came close to proposing a time interval that I have established in Chapter 6 of this book. I have read his ‘Vastav Ramayana’ multiple times over the last decade."

"His theory, as far as the theory of visual observations of the sky is concerned, is same as that of my theory (see Chapter 2). However, he has invoked other theories (e.g. astrological Dristhi of a specific graha on specific Nakshatra). I have limited myself to the theory of ‘visual observations’ of the sky."

Oak naturally falls short.

"Many western researchers are perplexed by the ability of Indian researchers to propose specific days for the specific instances of ancient events (e.g. Ramayana or Mahabharata). While the ability of Indian researchers is to be appreciated, such marvels had been possible because of (1) Luni-solar Indian calendar, (2) Meticulous and accurate astronomy observations going back for more than 25000 years, and (3) creative means (allegory, methphor) employed by ancient Indian sages to document these observations via composition of Samhitas and conducting of Yajna and other rituals."

"Rama’s Coronation: Positions of Sun, Mars & Rahu

"Valmiki Ramayana observation is as follows15:

"अवष्टब्धं च मे राम नक्षत्रं दारूणग्रहै:

आवेदयन्ति दैवज्ञा:सूर्यानअंगारकराहुभि:"

"Vartak has invoked the theory of astrological Drishthti to explain why Rahu and Mars were also together with the sun on this day. Problem of astrological Drishthi is that once one begins, there is no stopping, and anything anywhere can be explained."

Not true, and this disdain is merely typical of those too lazy to get into it; one could make the same comment about anything, from cooking to education to dressing to earning.

"Dr. Vartak has mentioned one more interesting observation related to coronation of Rama. As they are ready to leave for the forest, Sita tells Rama21: (Ayodhya GP 26:9, CE 23:8)

अद्य बार्हस्पत: श्रीमान्युक्त: पुष्यो न राघव

"प्रोच्यते ब्राह्मणै: प्राज्ञै: केन त्वमसि दुर्मना:"

"Sita refers to this day of scheduled coronation of Rama as an auspicious day when propitious Pushya day (nakshatra Pushya) has come along with day of Brihaspati. Since nakshatra Devata of Pushya is Brihaspati, Sita might be simply referring to this connection. ... "

That's incorrect. Pushya is owned by Saturn, not Brihaspati - Oak is confusing between Punarvasu which does belong to Brihaspati and Pushya which does to Saturn.

"Setting Sun near Pushya, during season of Hemanta3

"Ramayana text refers to the setting of the Sun near Nakshatra Pushya (Aranya Kanda), during the season of Hemant (autumn).

"निवृत्ताकाशशयना:पुष्यनिता हिमारुणा:

"शीता वृद्धतरायामास्त्रियामा यान्ति साम्प्रतम"

"This observation is capable of pinpointing a broad time interval of 11500 BCE – 17500 BCE, which interestingly enough, coincides with the conclusion drawn from Ramayana observation for month of Chaitra and it coinciding with season of flowers.

"Since the observation of the sun setting near nakshatra Pushya, during the season of Hemant, is a visual observation, one may make a case for extending this period further. One may assert that nakshatra Pushya would have been visible at the western horizon, immediately after the setting of the Sun. While determining specific amount of separation between the sun and nakshatra Pushya could be anyone’s guess, what we can comfortably state is that the separation of nakshatra Pushya from the position of the setting sun (during season of Hemet) does not need to be more than 30 degrees, i.e. nakshatra Pushya east of the setting sun by 30 degrees. This assumption would bring the time of this observation to as late as 11500 BCE."

"In India, the time of summer solstice coincides with the beginning of rainy season (monsoon). The rainy season began with the lunar month of Magha for my proposed timeline of Ramayana (12200 BCE). The rainy season began with the lunar month of Ashwin for timeline of Ramayana (7300 BCE) proposed by Dr. Vartak. Valmiki Ramayana refers to Shravana as the first month of rainy season320.

"We have already seen that if we accept Valmiki Ramayana statement of the beginning of rainy season, specifically its identification with the lunar month of Shravana, then the logical inference is that Ramayana happened either in 2000 BCE, 28000 BCE or in further antiquity separated by ~26000 years (orbital period of precession of equinoxes). We have seen why 2000 BCE does not make sense and anyone making such a claim has onus to corroborate numerous astronomy, chronology and seasonal observations of Valmiki Ramayana."

"In his book on dating of Ramayana - ‘Vastav Ramayana’, Dr. Vartak had provided three such clues for the benefit of future researchers:

"(1) One observation1 from Valmiki Ramayana, interpretation of which would lead to a plausible time of one million years in antiquity for the timing of Ramayana.

"(2) One observation of a comet that was afflicting nakshatra Moola, when Rama was ready for his march to Lanka, from Kishkindha. Dr. Vartak could not corroborate this observation, however, recognized the plausible but immense value of this observation and thus requested astronomy experts to research this observation5. I did test this observation and readers know the outcome.

"(3) Dr. Vartak recognized the contradiction in his interpretation of the rationale for designating first Nakshatra, based on observation from Taittiriya Samhita vs. based on observation(s) from Mahabharata 340-342. Dr. Vartak interpreted first observation (Taittiriya Samhita) by assuming winter solstice as the point of first nakshatra while he interpreted his second observation (Mahabharata) by assuming spring equinox as the point of first nakshatra. He recognized the contradiction and stated his rationale in making this second choice (in case of dating of Ramayana) since he could not find other relevant evidence to go back as far as 14000 BCE as the time of Ramayana. He suggested researchers to study this time interval and to check if relevant evidence can be obtained."

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May 17, 2022 - May 17, 2022.

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Theory & Proposal of Pushkar Bhatnagar 188 20

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"He certainly understood the loose correspondence between Indian lunar months (e.g. Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha, etc.) and the months of Gregorian/Julian Calendar. Thus he states, correctly, that while the lunar month of Chaitra coincides with March-April in our times (2000 CE), in 5000 BCE (some 7000 years ago) the lunar month of Chaitra coincided with December/January.

"This approximate shift of 3 months is due to two reasons. First, it is purely due to the phenomenon of ‘precession of equinoxes’ which would shift ‘median lunar Tithi’ by one day every 71 years. Thus for 7000 years, we should observe a shift of 7000/71 ~ 100 days. The second reason for this shift is due to the slight difference in length of time between Julian and Gregorian calendars.

"Important point for our analysis of Shri Bhatnagar’s research is that, while he understood this shift for correspondence between Indian lunar months and months of Julian/Gregorian calendar, he completely missed the implication of ‘precession of equinoxes’ for the shift in season for a given lunar month. A season would shift by one lunar month approximately every 2000 years due to the ‘precession of equinoxes’.

"No wonder Shri Bhatnagar is assuming lunar month of Chaitra to be that of spring (Vasanta), even in 5000 BCE, while the reality is that lunar month of Chaitra coincided with the peak of winter (interphase of Hemant and Shishir seasons) during 5000 BCE. During the period of 5000 BCE, lunar months coincided with six seasons as follows:

"Chaitra-Vaishakha Shishir (winter)

Jyeshtha –Ashadha Vasanta (spring)

Shravana-Bhadrapada Grishma (summer)

Ashwin-Kartika Varsha (rain)

Margashirsha –Pausha Sharad (pre-Autumn)

Magha-Phalgun Hemant (autumn)"

"I have shown that in year 5561 BCE, time of the Mahabharata War, the point of summer solstice coincided with nakshatra Hasta (one nakshatra before Chitra), which also meant lunar month of Chaitra was the beginning of winter season (Shishir). In another 500 years (~5000 BCE), the point of summer solstice would have moved by only 7-8 degrees and thus the month of Chaitra would still be the first month of winter season."

"The time of Rama Janma18 and his coronation 17 years after his birth2 occurred on Chaitra Shuddha 9 and the time was that of forests full of blossom2, peacocks dancing in the rain9 and the time of Sharad season 10-14, 21."

"On 10 January 5114 BCE, the sun was 16 degrees away from the point of winter solstice (i.e. winter solstice would occur 16 days after this day) and on 4/5 January 5089 BCE, the sun was 21 degrees away from the point of winter solstice (i.e. winter solstice would occur 21 days after this day). Therefore Valmiki Ramayana observations of season, at the time of Rama-Janma, do not corroborate with the proposed timing of Bhatnagar."

"Valmiki Ramayana observation is as follows15:

"अवष्टब्धं च मे राम नक्षत्रं दारूणग्रहै:

"आवेदयन्ति दैवज्ञा:सूर्यानअंगारकराहुभि:"

"Shri Bhatnagar has interpreted this to mean that the sun, Mars and Rahu (node of the moon) were together (within one nakshatra space). On 5 January 5089 BCE, the sun was between nakshatras Shatabhishaj and Purva Bhadrapada. Rahu is rather a region in the space and not point and the position of this node was at nakshatra Shatabhishaj. Thus the sun and Rahu can be considered together. On the other hand, Mars is between nakshatras Hasta and Uttara Phalguni and thus nowhere close to the sun and/or Rahu. Thus this Ramayana observation does not corroborate with proposal of Shri Bhatnagar."

Only, this observation by the poet isn't astronomical or visual, because it makes no sense except with astrology, and in astrological terms affliction isn't necessarily conjunction; as per standard terms of astrology, the astronomical situation Oak provides has Mars not aspecting or afflicting the Sun, but it nevertheless is at an inauspicious angle.

"Valmiki Ramayana describes the view of the sky, as Hanuman left Lanka to cross the ocean, in a poetic manner. The portion of the sky from nakshatra Punarvasu through nakshatra Shravana is described.

"Shri Bhatnagar states, correctly, that this entire portion of the sky cannot be visible at any given time and thus conjectured that this also alludes to the traveling time of Hanuman while crossing the ocean. This is very logical and should be considered as his original contribution to Ramayana research.

"Shri Bhatnagar summarizes Valmiki Ramayana description:

"The Moon was like lotus while Sun appeared like a crane. In the sky, Pushya and Shravana Nakshatras were seen like swans. Punarvasu appeared like a big fish. Mars and the large graha (Jupiter), the elephant of Indra – Airavata, Island and the Swati Nakshatra were seen to be moving like a Swan."

"On 14 September 5076 BCE, the phase of the moon is that of four days after the full moon day and the position of the moon is near naskshatra Punarvasu. This corroborates well with the descriptions of the sky. On the other hand, since the sun is near nakshatra Vishakha, only naskshatras Punarvasu through Swati would be visible. The portion of the sky from nakshatra Swati through nakshatra Shravana, as described in Valmiki Ramayana, would not be visible at all due to the glare of the sun. Of course, once we realize that this is a poetic description, we can conjecture that Valmiki would have imagined half of the visible (potentially visible) sky beginning with nakshatra Punarvasu and up to the region of nakshatra Shravana. While this could be true, we must recognize that Mars and Jupiter, per summary of Shri Bhatnagar, are simply nowhere to be found in the sky. Mars and Jupiter are near nakshatra Jyeshtha and thus would not have been visible at all in the morning, since the sun was near nakshatra Vishakha and would be on the horizon, long before Mars and Jupiter came up on the horizon."

Oak reminds of his mentioning, as per his own timeline, that Venus and Jupiter were visible and not mentioned by Valmiki, and wondering why.

"Shri Bhatnagar proposed that Rama left from Kishkindha, along with Vanara-army on 19 September 5076 BCE. This would mean Bhatnagar is claiming that southern Vanara search party, along with Hanuman, traveled the distance from southern shore (Rameshwaram) to Kishkindha (Hampi/Bellary in Karnataka) in less than 5 days!

"While it is true that Valmiki Ramayana talks of flying ability among Vanara, not all Vanara could fly. In addition, there is no mention of Vanara party returning to Kishkindha flying. In fact there are descriptions of them taking rest on the way and spending time at Sugriva’s garden where they feasted on honey and became inebriated. Besides, Shri Bhatnagar is not accepting existence of flying Pushpak, so it is reasonable to assume that he is not accepting flying Vanara. I leave it to readers to figure out if it is possible for Vanara party to walk a distance from Rameshwaram to Hampi/Bellary in 5 days. As a reference, I may mention that current distance via national/state highways, using the shortest route, is over 900 kilometers, which would mean ~200 kilometers of walking per day!"

Oak is ignoring the obvious - the leaping from tree to tree, rather than continuous flight, which is perhaps more strenuous than being carried on air currents, but might enable them to travel longer distances in shorter time with less strain. And all primates have retained this ability greater than humanity. Viewed thus, Hanuman had the ability only extraordinarily more, his flying was only a leap longer than most other primates.

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May 17, 2022 - May 17, 2022.

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Theories and Proposals of SRS & Yardi 200 21

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"The First proposal is by three authors, who proposed dates for three distinct instances of Ramayana, but did not bother to tell us how they arrived at it. This work is a good illustration of why a sincere attempt that is not backed by theory or that does not explain the logic behind its discovery does not lead to the growth of knowledge.

"The second proposal is by Mr. M R Yardi (Yardi hereafter). His work, specifically on the dating of Ramayana, is a good illustration of nonsensical methodology employed by Indologists, from India and from around the world, during past 300 years in researching history of India. Anyone interested in ancient history of India should not be content in knowing the dates proposed by so called ‘experts’ and ‘scholars’ but should treat them as a conjecture, or a working hypothesis, that must be tested against the basic criteria of logic of discovery, use of hypothesis and its consistency, simplicity, falsifiability and testability.

"In 2002 CE, Three authors- Dr. S P Sabarathnam, N P Ramadurai and V Sundaram (SRS hereafter) published a book ‘Ancient History of India through Astronomy’. It was edited by N Mahalingam and was published by International Society for the Investigation of Ancient Civilizations, Chennai.

"I could not obtain a copy of this book, in spite of my multiple efforts. Therefore I am not familiar with their theory and how they arrived at their proposed timing of Ramayana. All it says is that they used Vedanga Jyotisha for actual calculations.

"This limits me to simply test specific dates proposed by them against the internal observations of Valmiki Ramayana. This also means I can test only those instances for which they have mentioned the dates. I have gathered this information with the help of many kind friends. Most of this information is based on reviews written for the book.

"Yardi Mr. M. R. Yardi wrote ‘Epilogue of Ramayana’ and my analysis and criticism of his work is based on the contents of that book. Yardi also reminds us, correctly, that the critical edition (in this case critical edition of Ramayana prepared by BORI-Pune) of any work gives only a reliable text which existed at a particular time, depending on the dates of the earliest manuscripts available. Yardi refers to a statistical study which resulted in identification of six different styles of writing Ramayana. However, it is not clear from the book itself what study he is referring to. ... "

" ... For example, recently (2003 CE) excavations in Northern India (UP) have found iron artifacts that were shown to be as old as 1800 BCE. This is a good illustration of why assertions based on absence of evidence are illogical and unscientific and outright dangerous for research of any kind, and especially for areas where one has to depend on whatever evidence is available, e.g. ancient history."

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May 17, 2022 - May 17, 2022.

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Ramayana Diary 207 22